Jay Feldman 0:12
Welcome to Episode 52, of the energy balance podcast, where we teach you how to live without constant hunger and cravings, fatigue, brain fog, poor sleep and other low energy symptoms by maximizing your cellular energy. I'm Jay Feldman. I'm a health coach and independent health researcher, and joining me again today is my good friend Mike Fave. Mike and I have been studying health and nutrition together for a long time now, and Mike also draws on his experiences from working within the healthcare industry. Today's episode will be part four of our series discussing men's Hormonal Health, where we've been discussing how you can improve male reproductive health from the bioenergetic perspective. If you haven't listened through parts one through three of the series, I'd highly recommend you go back and do that. In part one, we discussed the problem with calorie deficiencies, carbohydrate deficiencies and protein excess. In part two, we discussed how you can increase testosterone with saturated fats and how you can decrease estrogen. And then in part three, we discussed how you can optimize exercise and sleep to build muscle. In today's episode part four, we'll be discussing workout supplements to avoid and how you can decrease stress, and the importance of decreasing stress for Hormonal Health. In particular, we'll be talking about how stress can decrease muscle mass, increase body fat and disrupt our hormones. And then we'll discuss how you can decrease and manage stress to improve Hormonal Health. And then on the supplement side, we'll be talking about whether popular fitness supplements like nitric oxide boosters pre workouts and intro workout carbohydrates are supportive. On the bioenergetic level, we'll be talking about why supplements are not the answer for improving body composition and Hormonal Health, and when it does make sense to use supplements. And then we'll also talk about why most weight loss supplements are not a good idea, and what can be done instead, to lose fat and whether it makes sense to use exogenous hormones to improve our hormonal state. If you're new to this podcast, I'd highly recommend you go back and listen to episodes one through seven, where we took some time to build a foundation as far as the bioenergetic perspective is concerned. To check out the show notes for today's episode, you can head over to Jay Feldman wellness.com/podcast where I'll link to the studies and articles and anything else that we reference throughout today's episode. And if you are struggling with any of the hormonal symptoms that we've discussed, whether that's trouble putting on muscle or trouble losing stubborn body fat, or low libido or other hormone related symptoms, and you've been listening through this series, and maybe you're not sure where to start or how to apply some of the information, or maybe you have started applying some of the information, but you aren't really sure where to go next, then head over to Jay Feldman wellness.com/call where you can sign up for a free call with me, where I'd be happy to offer some suggestions as far as how you can improve your Hormonal Health. And again, if you are dealing with any of these symptoms or any other low energy symptoms, whether that's fatigue or chronic cravings and hunger or joint pain or digestive inflammation or brain fog or poor sleep, or if you're dealing with any other low energy symptoms or chronic health conditions, then you can head over to Jay Feldman wellness.com/energy, where you can sign up for a free energy balance mini course, where I'll explain how these different symptoms and conditions come down to A lack of energy, and what you can do, from the diet and lifestyle perspective to rectify this and increase your cellular energy. So to sign up for that free energy balance mini course, head over to Jay Feldman wellness.com/energy, and with that, let's get started.

So throughout these last few episodes, we've alluded to how much of an impact stress has on our hormones, and we've talked about it in terms of physiological stress a little bit throughout and then also definitely in the past, which I'll take a minute to define, and then we'll also talk about, like emotional stress and psychological stress, but big picture, these things have a major impact on our Hormonal Health. One of the best ways to cause the wasting of muscle, increasing in increases in body fat, you know, disrupting hormones, taking libido, the one of the best ways to do all those things is to increase stress. So it's an important thing to talk about, at least, to give just a baseline of of its importance and some of the basics of what we can do about it. Of course, it's also a pretty in depth topic that we can't address all of right now, but just big pictures. We've talked a little bit about physiological stress, and just to clarify, basically, physiological stress is the response that happens when we have a lack of energy, so that's why it's so important to make sure we're getting enough. Carbs and fats and, of course, protein as well, though that's a little a little bit less from the energetic side, but this is also why it's important not to overtrain. Why recovery is so important is because if we have that imbalance between the energy we have available and our energy demands, we're going to be under physiological stress, and that's what's going to drive increases in stress hormones like glucagon, adrenaline and cortisol, which are the direct hormones that oppose the sex and reproductive hormones, like testosterone and the other androgens for for men, and then, you know, progesterone and the related hormones for women, and also thyroid hormones, just those, and some of the other steroid hormones that are the more major metabolic regulators. So one of the I guess the way I would put emotional stress or psychological stress, is that that falls in the energy demand category, where those things are basically a huge drainer of energy, and you can have some amount of emotional and psychological stress without actually causing physiological stress. But in general, those are really good ways to cause physiological stress, because they really drain the available energy, especially for our brains. And then if you don't have carbs available, you don't have adequate blood sugar, then it is going to trigger the release of those stress hormones. So with that in mind, we do want to do things that are going to reduce emotional and psychological stress, considering they're one of those main stressors, mean energy drainers and energy demands. And there's several different strategies there that can be helpful. I mean, there's a ton of strategies, but we could just go through a few of those and talk about, yeah, some of like, kind of the big bang for your buck, or just a few things to maybe consider when it comes to ways to reduce stress, yeah.

Mike 6:37
And I just, I want to put into context the all these stressors activate the same system, right? So gut irritation, endotoxin, lack of sleep, they all impact the the hypothalic pituitary adrenal axis. And in kind of the same way, the stress response is generalized, and this is, this is like ton seli A's work, is that the stress, the overall stress response, is generalized, and so basically, any so just feeling like you don't have enough time to do something, some your boss at work gets up in your face and just, you know, makes you feel like crap or or you're you feel like you're running late, or

Jay Feldman 7:19
a fight with a significant other or friend.

Mike 7:21
Exactly, yeah, or, or you just, like, have too much going on, you feel overwhelmed all of those things. They hit that stress system, much like, you know, and much like, if you had, like, severe gut irritation or something like that, they all, they all hit that access axis and kind of the similar way, but through, like, via different means.

Jay Feldman 7:40
But all by draining energy, which is what leads to that, that stress.

Mike 7:43
Exactly.

And your emotional and your felt sense is sort of like, it's a guiding system to let you know, like, wow. Like, if you're feeling overwhelmed, it's like your body's like you're you're starting to feel that, that drain on resources, right? So, and, and it's important, I think, to make that distinction so, so that you can understand that, like, what your body is telling you is, is right? You got to pay attention to the signals you know when you feel, when you're at work and you're, if your boss is going to, like, get all up in your face about whatever it is that and your stress, your stress system is going off. It's because you're, it's like an attack right, on some emotional ego, personal, whatever level, whatever level, however you wanted to find it. I don't, I don't know the specific. However. Everyone has a different word for it. So and with that, when that happens, it will cause the release of adrenaline and cortisol, because the stress system is an, is a energy activating system, in the sense that if you don't have enough energy, it's like mobile mobilizing resources. It'll exactly, it's like a backup system. So it starts to mobilize resources from out of your tissues, out of your stores, for to meet whatever the imposed stress is. So and then also, like, there's some with the inflammation stuff, there's, there's some, uh, like immunosuppressive effects, right to limit, to initially limit some of the damage, or long term, it has a lot of drastically negative implications. So all of these things are kind of hitting the same system. So it's actually extremely important that the your mindset and your psychological and emotional and whatever, like allostatic load, or amount of stress that's applied is is managed, as well as, as much as your diet and your sleep and everything else's diet is dialed in, those things have to be managed just as much, or else, you're, you're kind of like, you know, you're, you're up the creek without a paddle, type of deal. So, and I think that the reason I stress this because I think a lot of people look past this, and maybe I'm just, I'm projecting on other people, because this is something that I have done where it's like, well, I eat well, and, you know, I get my sleep, and I get to the gym and I get sun whenever I can, but at the like. In the meantime, my job and things that I was doing were still, like, seriously stressing me out, to the extent that After that day, like I had to take a day to just lay in bed because I was so exhausted from what I was doing, or it was just like the work was too long, and so whatever it was, right, so it getting out of those situations, or learning how to manage with them, or trying to. And the other thing is, it doesn't have to be just getting out of the situation, right? Because sometimes you don't have the opportunity to, if it's your work life or whatever that is, it's figuring out how to do something about it. And the example that I always like to put and something that Ray has talked about, and I actually got this example from him, and it's a study he talked about, where he talks about learned helplessness, where when you have a rat, they tie it down to the table, and the rats fighting to get out. When it's fighting to get out, it actually develops ulcers in its intestines, and that's indicative of the stress response. That is one of the main things that you see in the generalized stress response. And this is Hans Selye work. This is what Hans Selye saw and the animals he worked with as they developed intestinal ulcers from stress. So but when they allowed the rat to bite down on the stick to do something about the situation, it was powerful and it had a protective effect. So sometimes you can have your life on point, as far as your diet and your your sleep, and you know, your supplementation and whatever else, but if the stress isn't isn't addressed as well, and you're not like, part of those things can be actively doing something about the stress, but learning how to manage the stress or reframe the stress if you can't get out of it, can be really helpful, or even just concocting a plan to get out of the stress. And that's something that I've actually done with people that I've worked with, even recently. They're in a situation where they they can't like, they can't bear the situation. It's just the psychological like, they don't like where they're living, they don't like the people that they're around. They're under a lot of stress with just by those areas. And so one of the things that we talked about, and like, the manifestation of that for this person is, you know, like a lot of mood stuff and or it could be gut, gut issues, whatever it is, um, this there for them is specifically, like, gut distress, like they're having a lot of like, IBS type symptoms for them, something that was very helpful and was giving them hope, was creating a plan to get out, I'm going to do X, Y and Z, so I can get to where I want to go. For that person, it was akin to biting on the stick. And I've seen this with with other people as well. Just creating a creating a plan to do something, creates this almost like the the mind and the body sort of synergize for it, and they get to a point where it's like, wow, there's actually a way out. And then it starts to mobilize energy, and it it actually helps relieve the stress in those circumstances, as long as that plan isn't too overwhelming, right? So I think that that's something that's really important to keep in mind, is that this is just as powerful as these other lifestyle modalities. And a lot of people say, Oh, stress. Stress. This stress that it, it's something that really needs to be maintained, even if it's even if it's just reframing your situation when you're like, if you're really in a bad situation at work, just reframing it, giving yourself small goals throughout the day that you can like, give like, you can congratulate yourself on if you've completed them, giving yourself checkpoints, and then also making time for yourself in the day to just like, have that break, which is something I think we're going to talk about in a second, but just being able to sit down and just unwind, those are really, really important things to keep in mind and to help with not being overwhelmed, and then also having creating a structure around the day so that you you're able to, like, manage because things can start to snowball into themselves. If you don't, you don't have a proper structure for your day. And I know structure isn't necessarily very Pete, but sometimes it's really helpful.

Jay Feldman 13:54
Yeah, and that can be individual. Some people really like having structure. Some people really like having some freedom. And I think, as you were saying, the structure kind of helps, but it's more along the planning, like feeling like you are getting things done, or you are working towards a certain goal. But that can look different for different people. It doesn't have to. You know, structure can be different things, but so, so I think it's a good thing to point out that a lot of people are in that kind of learned helplessness state, state where they're stuck. They feel like there's nothing that can do. And a lot of people, I think, also don't recognize that they might not, that they might be feeling that way. And I think part of this is because a lot of people go through their lives day to day and aren't really, don't have time to reflect, or aren't thinking about things in those terms, and is just kind of always going from one thing to the next. Our minds always elsewhere. They're always distracted by technology or whatever we have to do next, and we never actually take a moment to examine how we're feeling. Or maybe we get angry, there's an outburst, and we don't, like, we don't even know what we're angry about, like, what led to that in the first place? What are you actually feeling? And so that, I think that's a nice kind of the. Into taking some structured time to examine how you feel, your thoughts, your just what you're experiencing, and where you know are you even stressed? A lot of people are very stressed and don't don't really realize it, or they're just going from one thing to the next. And of course, there are people who are also naturally laid back and don't experience stress in that same way. So it all depends, but some really great tools for evaluating where you're at and working back to living in the present and examining your thoughts and examining your feelings. So some of those really great tools would be meditation and mindfulness, as well as journaling. And there's a ton of different techniques here that can be used. And some might some, you know, some people might like some of these techniques better than others. So I don't really want to push any particular one rather than just taking the time to explore these things. There's a ton of apps out there for meditation that will make it way easier. There's a, you know, a million different techniques you can find online, and some of which I've found helpful. Some I haven't same with various clients, and it's different for each person.

Mike 16:04
I think the easiest thing though, to start is to just start writing stuff down. Even if I think that's like the easiest, simplest, without taking any research, just start writing down. You know, what? What are you thinking? What are you feeling? And then the other thing I think is helpful is after you do that, is, you know, take then to do something about it. Like something that was helpful for me in a bad spot was like a gratitude type of journal, like just three things that you're grateful for. So it's like, this is all stuff. I'm thinking, This is what's bothering whatever. And then these are the three things I'm grateful for. And that's almost like doing something about it, right? What just writing the stuff down is doing something about it. And like getting things out, I think that's important, and I feel like that's something that's very important to me, and why I'm grateful for, like, our friendship, like we could talk about things, but then also with like, family and stuff. Like, I have a good relationship with my dad, so I like, if I have a stressful situation, and I think Danny and Georgie touched on this as well, like, having some element of people around a good friend or a family member that you can just vent to, and it doesn't mean that the person has to solve your problem, but just venting it out and letting somebody else know what's going on and getting it out of your system, it's almost like it relieves. It's like, Oh, I was mad about this. And then like, the like, machine gun, it out, and then afterwards, like, I feel a lot better, you know, I'm not that mad anymore. So you don't have to hold on to it, and things don't have to build up and and pile up.

Jay Feldman 17:24
Yeah, absolutely. And I think even a step before, like writing things out, or step before, like writing things out in a journal, which I think that's perfect, but even just even a bigger, more broad, important point here and this even, even, I mean, like talking with somebody can work here too, but just having time or space to not like, to be non distracted, to just sit and that, you know, sit with your thoughts, spend time outside, not doing anything, spend time without your phone, without TV on, maybe, Maybe without music or like with quiet music at most, just because so much of the time, I found that I think we're getting more and more distracted as a society, and we can talk about why that might be and all of that. But the important point is, there's so few times when we're just left with our thoughts, and so if you want to carve out that time for journaling or for meditation or mindfulness or talking with a friend, that's great. If you don't want to do those things and just want to have time to do absolutely nothing, that works too a lot of times, just having that time to kind of process things in whatever way works best for you. Yeah, yeah. Makes a huge difference. And I think it's something that so many of us are deficient in, whether it's because we're just thinking about the next thing we have to do, or we're thinking about something that happened in the past, or whatever it is.

Mike 18:48
And I mean, that's the reason, for me, what's helpful is creating the structure, I know is for some people might but like actually structuring that time in where you know that it's like this Hour and this at on, on the day, I'm just gonna play out in the sun, like, and that's something that I do is like, I'm gonna go lay out on the grass in the sun. Or when I was living up north in the cold, in the winter, and it was dark and I had to work night shift, I just set up like, a whole light, like, it's like a light bed, essentially. And it was this, all halogen lamps and some red lights. And I would just like, take an hour and I would just lay under it. Would I fall asleep? Sometimes, yeah, I would just like, I would like, pass out. Other times I would just sit there and I would just think, and I would just sometimes I play music. But I think it's important to and out for me that was a period of time to sort of take all of these thoughts that I had or whatever was going on. And I would just, like, conceptualize them all together, and I would articulate them to myself and or I would, you know, I would go talk to my dad about it after, or we would talk about it. I think another time that's really good for people is like a hot shower, like, just for some people, just like taking, like, a long hot shower, and just like having feeling the heat and what. Not. And then, you know, just you have that time where just, you just start, like, have processing thoughts and whatnot, and it feels good, whatever. For some people, I mean, I'm not a bath person, but, you know, for some people, they could, they could have a bath or something, or it could be a walk in nature, whatever it is, everybody can find. But I think making the time for that is extremely important. And it's not like, yes, you know, it's like, you're out in nature or whatever, this and that, but it's like just having that time by yourself, also to to collect yourself and then so I think we have two aspects here, being able to collect yourself, and then also the having, like, community and stuff is, I think, really important for people. And I think that's something that's also really broken down. So I guess, to recap those things, is, if you're in a situation where you can't, where you feel like you can't do anything about it, start planning to do something about it. And that doesn't mean that you need to do something right away, but just the element of planning, like sitting down and being like, this is where I am, and this is what's going on, and how can I get there? Even if it doesn't like it doesn't have to make sense right off the bat, just like you're thinking about it, right? And just thinking about it as the first step, having the time to do that, and then also having community. I think those are three really important things that can help people. And they're you can do them right now, right? You can go take a hot shower right now. You could start writing just on, for me, it's just like on printer paper or whatever, whatever garbage paper I have around, I'll just start writing on it, or I have a note in my phone, whatever it is. Those, however you do it, those are easy things that can be done right now to help deal with whatever's going on and and I think we see that even with like famous philosophers or people men who were thinking, they just were thinking out loud on paper, right? And then over time, they like, refined it.

Jay Feldman 21:45
Yeah, yeah. And just to clarify also, an hour is great. You were mentioning, like, an hour for your time, of like, non distracted time, or just time to process things. A lot of people, that's a lot of time to carve out, especially at first. So even five to 10 minutes is a perfect start. That's still something and the and that doesn't have, again, like it doesn't have to be intentional time. It's almost like creating time to lack intention, where it's just free for your mind to kind of flow. And again, you can add structure in there. You can make it a just free journaling. You can make it more structured journaling. You can make it a structured meditation. There's, there's a ton of options here, but at least something which could be nothing like that can be time to do nothing that works, that's that counts. So yeah, and I would say also the a lot of people experience like racing thoughts when they go to lay down at night, before they go to sleep. And sometimes that can be related to low blood sugar, not getting enough food, too much stimulation, like stress wise, there's there can be various physiological aspects there, but additionally, sometimes that's because we just go from one thing to the next all day, and we're constantly distracted. We're constantly not in the present. And then when we finally go and lay down with no distractions, our body or our mind is trying to process everything that happened throughout the day and trying to, like, put things together and connect things, and then it brings you to other thoughts. And so a lot of times, those racing thoughts can be brought out because we don't have any time during the day where our mind is allowed to kind of roam free. And as you mentioned, a lot of like, the great thinkers had a lot of free time to think. And there's so much value in that, even if you're worried about wanting to be more productive or whatever it is, having space and time, like giving yourself space and giving yourself time is huge.

Mike 23:34
Yeah, and so I think, I think the idea of processing things is really important, right? If you go through a stressful event or something, being able to look back and process is important if you because if you're just going, going, going going, going, you just, you start piling up all these little things. And I think having that time to process, having that time to hash things out for yourself, if it's with a friend, if it's in a journal, whatever it is, I think that's really powerful. And I think this is something that community was for in the past, like you had that the family or friends around you that you could, you know, you could talk about things, get different perspectives, articulate the ideas, understand why this, why that, and learn from it.

Jay Feldman 24:15
Yeah. And just some other points here, just to kind of, at least on my end, I think, wrap up some of the stress side of things, nature and sunlight are really great vehicles for all of this, which we've kind of alluded to, socializing is a huge component here, and that doesn't have to be strict socializing. That can mean that when you're at the gym, you're talking with people, you're maybe making some friends there, or doing any you know, we talked about all these other forms of exercise that may have, that may have more social aspects to them, whether that's martial arts or a team sport where that kind of the social aspect is built in, but yeah, and even more now, when everything is becoming remote and virtual, people are obviously experiencing at least a lot of people are experiencing that, like the impact of a lack of. Social interaction. And I think that is going that's a major cost to to all of these things, and something that we that that's worth putting the effort into as much as possible, to prioritize and to, you know, again, some people might not be able to socialize quite as much right now, but for those who can.

Mike 25:22
Yeah, I think, and I think that's something that, I think that it's something that people in this time also need to really take stock of the importance is, is the importance of community and socialization, and, you know, having having those people that you can trust around you, especially now, I think it's really important, I think with everything that's going on. And currently it's just you need to have that community, those people that you can reach out to, those people that you have around you, you know, if you're having a hard time, whatnot.

Jay Feldman 25:50
So yeah. So let's talk about some of the popular supplements that are used for building muscle, losing fat, getting better workouts and pumps. And, you know, for Hormonal Health, there's a lot of them, which I think is already part of the problem, and one of the first things I want to talk about, but yeah, so let's talk about a lot of these popular supplements. And let's start with the ones that are maybe not so great, you know, when considering things from the bioenergetic view. And then there are some that are popular, that are still beneficial, and then several that are not popular that would be more beneficial. So to start, I think just the concept, and we've obviously hammered this home at this point, how much nutrition and movement and sleep and stress have impacts on body composition and Hormonal Health. So the idea that we need to be taking these stacks of different supplements, you know, we need to be taking handfuls of of pills to optimize our our muscle building, you know, our muscle gains, or anything else is just kind of, I don't know, off base. And yes, there's value in taking certain supplements, but they should all have a particular purpose if you are using them. And just this idea that we should be taking some mass gainer or some stack of supplements with a multivitamin and fish oil and all these other, you know, pills in there, even if it's some of them are beneficial, just this idea, I think, is, is just very much missing the mark. And also there's potential drawbacks to a lot of these supplements that we'll dig into. So considering that too, I don't think it would be a great idea.

Mike 27:27
Yeah, do you want to go into, go into some of the specific ones? Yeah? Yeah, yeah. I mean, you have, I think that some of the worst ones to start off with, especially are within the bodybuilding spheres, like some of the pre workout supplements, and particularly some of the nitric oxide boosters. And then just in general, with these supplements, even besides those, like a lot of the supplements have completely crap ingredients. Yeah, so it's like, even if they have vitamins, it's forms that aren't the best forms to use, even if they have even if the forms are right, then there's like, magnesium steri, there's silica or silicon dioxide, titanium dioxide coloring. And since everybody's low sugar in that sphere, it's like erythritol is the main sweetener. Or, I don't know, like, like, I mean, stevia is not terrible, but it's like artificial sweeteners, if it is, if it's like acid flume potassium, or the aspartame or sucralose, all these like BS sweeteners, and it's just, it's just not like it's, it's not a those things are, are not helpful, right? And they're not 100% necessary for the product. And then, even with that, some, as, as I alluded to earlier, some of the compounds in there, like the nitric oxide boosters, where you have all the beat nitrate stuff and taking, like, higher amounts of arginine, just that your veins pop out, is not necessarily ideal. Um, you don't want to be I mean, there's a place for nitric oxide in the body, but just artificially raising it so that you have like, high amounts of vasodilation is not necessarily what you want. So like, I think it's really important to keep those things in mind. And then, I mean, I'm not even going to get into all the new plant based protein powders and things like that, which I think would be a huge issue for a lot of people, digestive wise, and then obviously dairies, depending on tolerance. But a lot of these, a lot of the protein powders as well, like, it's depending on how they're processed, can be like, it can be a serious issue for digestion. They have to be processed well. And a lot of people notice this with protein powders, where they make them feel terrible. You take, you take, like, a whey or casein, you start treating it at high temperatures, isolating it and do all these, you know, with different chemicals, whatnot, I don't know, the whole process can really mess up your digestion. So it's like, just because it has a protein amount on on the container doesn't mean that it's necessarily usable, or that it's necessarily the best, the best form, or it's been prepared the best way, right? Like you wouldn't, you wouldn't take a steak, but. Burn it to death, right? You completely blacken the steak, and then, and then, oh, it has 30 grams of protein. So it must be good, right? There's a there's a quality, a quality element that needs to be kept in mind there. So it's not that way is bad, or that casein is bad. I mean, whey after exercise, like there's a use for it. You don't want to be shoveling whey protein shakes all day long as your as your main source of protein, right? There's obviously issues with that, but there's a there's a point to having whey and, like, a starchy meal after workout, as far as spiking insulin and whatnot. Like, there's physiologic basis there. But you want to be making sure that it's the high, high quality way, right? You want to be making sure that the ingredients, it does not load with a bunch of BS ingredients and and that is processed appropriately.

Jay Feldman 30:46
Yeah, yeah. And just taking a step back, looking at these supplements as a whole, I mean, so much of it is just built around marketing, like you were talking about all the blue dot, you know, the coloring dyes that are in there, and just, I mean, it's cotton candy flavor or whatever. And when you see like the labels and everything, like the marketing is so obvious and people recognize it, no one's like, no one's denying that. But the reason for that is because it's so much easier to say. The reason like a, the reason why you're not where you want to be is because you didn't take this pill. It's and then B, it's like, this is such an easy thing to do, and everybody wants the easy kind of fix or easy way to get there, and it's much less sexy than saying, you know, you really need to get at least eight hours of sleep per night. Like, that's, you can't buy that in a pill, and it takes some effort. And it's not, you know, it's not as fun, or as fun as, like, reducing your alcohol intake. Like, yeah. It's like, I'd rather party and take my my muscle gainer. And it's like, well, it doesn't really work like that.

Mike 31:47
No, it doesn't. It really doesn't. It's, it's, it's much easier for people. It's much easier to sell people on the idea of this pill or this one thing that you're missing, rather than, like, even the guys who are taking steroids, even the guys who are on performance enhancing drugs, the ones who are really looking the way that they're looking, they're dieting. Their diets pristine, right? Like they're for the most part. I mean, they may not be 100% following what we're talking about here, but the diet is still compared to, like the standard diets, in general, is pristine. You know, it's, it's, it's vegetables, lean proteins and then very easily digested starches, like the the the mean bodybuilding diet is chicken, broccoli and rice, right? Or steak, broccoli and rice, or white fish, broccoli and rice. Like, the diet is very clean. It's supposed to be on the like, easily digested, and they're eating on a consistent schedule, and they're sleeping, and they're working, they're working out on a very specific regimen, with with planned resting, and with monitoring volume and and then also using drugs like the whole system, like they're doing a systemic approach. And then those supplements that a lot of them take are on the side. It's like, yeah, it helps out. You know, you you're feeling a little bit tired because you're dieting down, you take a supplement full of stimulants and caffeine and whatnot. It helps you for your workout. Sure, also is, is it 100% healthy depending on what they're doing? No, it's not. A lot of times. It's not like starving yourself, taking performance enhancing drugs and then using like heavy stimulants and heavy lipolytic agents like clenbuterol and whatnot is definitely not a good idea for long term health. Well, you look great. Yeah, you probably will if you're going to be doing all that. But the point here is, even those guys are taking a systemic approach to things, and so it's easy to get sold on a supplement, but Well, the most important part to keep in mind is it's all a systemic approach, right? And especially if you're not on the performance enhancing drugs, you're, you're, you're not going to be able to do some of the things that some of these guys are doing. And it's not, it's not necessarily the art, the nitric oxide booster that's making them look the way that they're looking. It's, it's a whole lifestyle. That's a job, it's a full time job, and it's systemic. It's not just, it's not one thing. It's not just the drugs, right? You could take drugs, but you don't train, you don't eat, you don't sleep, whatever. It's not going to be the same. So, yeah.

Jay Feldman 34:14
Absolutely, yeah, yeah. And again, the the like, anabolic steroids and everything make a huge difference there. So I know, just talking about, like, the clean body building diet, I have seen people who do that and various other things and have a ton of health issues but still look incredible. You know, they're like, male model type people.

Mike 34:36
Yeah.

Jay Feldman 34:36
So, yeah, there's definitely a cost to those things, and you can get away with a lot without you can get get away with a lot using those sorts of drugs. Yeah, and then also with those diets, they work well for looking a certain way, not necessarily health, but again, that still, as you're saying, requires a lot of commitment compared to the person who just wants to take the pill to look back.

Mike 35:00
There, well, it also is addressing systemic things, right? Like, yeah, the you can get away with a lot on those drugs, yes, but, and you cannot sleep and you can eat crap, and you still look decent, right? But the guys who are really, you know that you're really blowing it out, that are really, like, top of the top, and they're getting the results, and they're on magazine covers and this and that that's lifestyle, that's lifestyle plus drugs a lot of times. I mean, I can't speak for everyone industry. I have no idea what everyone's doing, but I would say, on average, my guess would be that it's a combination of real hard work in managing their lifestyle on top of using performance enhancing drugs, right? And it's like, it's has to be the combination if you want to get to that level, right. And so if you're not going to use drugs, which is basically, we don't necessarily recommend using drugs, we we don't recommend using these drugs, then it has to be lifestyle. And then, in all cases, these random supplements are on the side. And then even, and then, with that said, you want to be using the right supplements, right? You don't just getting your veins to pop out from no boosters. Like, okay, your veins pop out. But it's not necessarily like, what is the larger context? What is the larger context of taking large amounts of arginine? Is there a risk to it? Does that risk outweigh the benefits of looking this way or that way? I think on our side, we would say with high amounts of arginine, yeah. So that's something to keep in mind.

Jay Feldman 36:25
Yeah. So I want to dig into some of the details there. As far as these different supplements go, also, just to clarify, I meant male fitness model, not like male model when I was saying earlier, but yeah, so let's dig into some of the specifics. So there are a lot of supplements that are meant to to boost nitric oxide. There's a lot of kind of faux reasons for this that a a it does stimulate vasodilation, so it'll make your veins pop out, which is what a lot of people are looking for when they're when they're taking these things. And there's like some suggestion that this can increase performance because you're increasing, like blood flow and things like that, which potentially it can. But we've talked about nitric oxide in the past as basically a stress factor that does induce vasodilation, but it's basically meant to do so when there's not enough vasodilation, which would happen if you're not producing enough enough carbon dioxide, which is supposed to be the primary vasodilator, so we don't want to be doing things that are driving that stress aspect of vasodilation and nitric oxide also happens to beyond just being directly involved with the whole stress pathway, also has some inhibiting effects in mitochondrial respiration or energy production along the electron transport chain. So it's basically a stress like it is part of that stress cascade that induces that backup energy production and basically inhibits the complete oxidation of of substrate, which is another way of saying it's making our energy production much less efficient and coming at a huge cost and really not doing much to benefit anybody, even from the like, body composition standpoint. So overall, I think doing anything to boost nitric oxide is generally not a great idea. A lot of the supplements that are used for this are arginine based, or citrulline or like beet or beet root.

Mike 38:19
Nitrates, like you're literally taking concentrated nitrates.

Jay Feldman 38:24
Exactly, yeah, and they'll do, like, juices of those, or they'll just include it as an ingredient supplements. So those are things that are often used, and I would say, really offer no benefit from even from like, the performance standpoint, and definitely come at a cost. So not a fan of those you had mentioned the pre workouts as well, and just as a, just to start off, and we talked about this last episode, is that is like this idea of whether you should even need a pre workout to work out. Like, do you a, are you rested and recovered? B, do you enjoy what you're doing, or are you just like forcing some sort of exercise because you feel like you have to and like, Could you maybe change things up so that you enjoy it more, or changing up the type of exercise or or whatever else there is there. And also, are you getting enough sleep? Like, if all those things are in place, do you really need something to help you get through your workout? I think in most cases the answer would be not, real warm up.

Mike 39:20
You need a warm up, right? Right? Yeah, a nice warm up would be helpful, right? But, yeah, I mean, if you wanted to do, like, a little caffeine or taurine and whatever, sure, but even then, like, that's, that's like, that's still besides the point, right? Like, can those things help? Yes, those things can specifically help. Those or creatine that's been proven to help, right, not necessarily as a pre workout, in the sense that it's gonna, like, be a stimulant, but ideally, like, you should be able to go work out without having to take a heavy amounts of stimulants. Like, if you have, if you need to rely on the stimulant to work out, then the question would be, like, I. Number one, either your motivation or, yeah, what's your motivation for working out? Or number two, like, what are you doing physiologically, right? Like, what's going on internally, and what are you sacrificing to look a certain way Exactly? Yeah. And if you're willing to sack make that sacrifice look a certain way, and it may not even be necessary, but if you are, you know, then that's, that's a different story. Yeah, at least recognize that. Yeah, that's not our that's not what how we current, or we think how we what we think is the way we would go about it, right?

Jay Feldman 40:32
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that, so that's part one is, why do you, why would you even need a pre workout in the first place? And then, yeah, and so examining that, and there's laid out some possible things there. But then the other part is, yes, there might be certain circumstances where you decide with all that in mind, do you think that using something as a quote, unquote pre workout is a good choice? And I don't think that that's never the case. I mean, there's certain contexts where that's fine, or if you just be like, you work out better with it, or, I mean, again, just recognizing why you're using it, what potential drawbacks are all of that? And then, okay, if you do want to use a pre workout, what might be a good option there. So you mentioned caffeine, which I agree with. So just having a cup of coffee or using caffeine pills, if you wanted to do that, there are a lot of benefits to coffee and caffeine. We've talked about those in a previous episode that I'll link to. So I'd say that would be a good option. With that in mind, Red Bull is actually decent. I mean, like, kind of the the one that's with sugar, and then

Mike 41:26
Yeah, not the fake, fake sugar one, yeah.

Jay Feldman 41:28
So, like, I think it's the original. I don't know. I've never had Red Bull so, but I know that in general, it's like, caffeine, taurine, there's a couple of denominide, bunch of vitamins, yeah, yeah.

And sugar. So is it ideal? No, like, I'd probably prefer to create something yourself using some of the ingredients, but it's fine. As far as those sorts of energy drinks or pre workouts, I don't I mean, that would be kind of the main ones that I would think about. As far as, like, being stimulating and that pre workout effect. Another thing too, just real quick, because this is just so common in the fitness industry, is not only using these drinks as pre workouts, but as energy drinks throughout the day, and again, all the same questions. They're like, why do you need that? What's going on in your lifestyle, physiologically, like, I think there are, if you were needing those things to get through the day, that might be something to examine.

Mike 42:14
I think there's a different I really think the why, right? If you why is important, if you need these things to get through the day, then we need to be seeing what's going on. If you are using it to improve your if you're using caffeine to improve your performance. For a workout, makes sense if you're going to take some a series of herbs, because, you know, you have to sit down and bang out an essay or something like that. What? Whatever those herbs or supplements or whatever it is like, do you need it? No, would it help out? Like, do you want to optimize from that perspective, but also it always has to be, what's the risk, what's the reward, what's the what's the context of taking these things in the overall picture, right? Like, using caffeine, you're taking it with enough sugar and you have the B vitamins and magnesium and whatever else that you that you need to, like, process that sugar. Like, it can be a help. Like, it's a little push on the on the gas pedal, right? If you got to sit down and really do use a lot of mental energy, but if you can't get through your day because you don't have the x next cup of coffee, then, like, those are completely different paradigms, right? There's a difference between optimizing and like, like, just like, not like, striving to get through the day, right? You like, have to really try, versus like, you're thriving. And now I want to optimize a little bit like, I want to take XYZ herb or XYZ combination of compounds, because I've read the research and it has this XYZ benefit in this larger overall picture. Those are two different scenarios. You're using the same substance, but the why and the how is different.

Jay Feldman 43:45
Yeah? And, and again, being particular about those substances, as you said, making sure that you're aware of their effects and that they are beneficial from this perspective, yeah.

Mike 43:55
Just because Joey D at the gym takes it doesn't mean that it's ideal, right? And just because Joey D has, like, an eight pack, like, we don't know what else Joey D's doing on the side. And it may not necessarily be, I don't know the their, their beat elite, or whatever it is, it may be the needle elite.

Jay Feldman 44:15
Yeah. And also, I do want to, like, point this out that there are a lot of people who, you know, look great, and have an APAC and don't, you know, aren't on anabolic steroids, and that's fine too. I mean that there's nothing, but that, again, doesn't mean that it's ideal from the health perspective, all that stuff we talked about before.

Mike 44:30
I just think I like to use that because I think it's funny. It's like the traditional, like, I think that's what everybody thinks of right, right off the bat. I think that's like the stereotype. Now, obviously there's, there's exceptions. There's people who are doing stuff right. There's bodybuilders we know online who are doing stuff the right way. And as far as, like, you know, they're not doing drugs, and they still look absolutely amazing, whatever, whatever, whatever, right? So it's not that everybody does it. I use it as, like, a stereotypical joke, right? Joey D at the gym, like, especially because I'm from. New Jersey, right? That's like, that's, that's like the stereotype where I'm from. It's like, this big, this big, like, Italian guy, like, whatever, at least in my town where I'm from.

Jay Feldman 45:12
Another thing too, that came to mind when it comes to needing a pre workout or, or something like that, is blood sugar. So having carbs or, like, some form of sugar in the 30 minutes before workout, or hour before hour workout and throughout too. Yeah. So, so first, like beforehand, before workout, is can be really important, especially if you haven't eaten for a while and you get some food in, make sure you're eating throughout the day. If you're having those slumps later in the day, you might not be eating enough. So that's a huge aspect to having enough energy to work out, and so making sure you're having decent blood sugar before your workout and having some carbs is going to be huge there. That's going to be a huge help from the energy standpoint, if that's why your energy is low. And yeah, having some carbs throughout the workout can also help to sustain you. There's some interesting research there where even just having the sweet taste in your mouth is enough to improve, like, performance and reduce fatigue, but I think raising the blood sugar or actually providing that fuel is going to be much better. So yeah, having carbs throughout the workout is a good again point as well.

Mike 46:13
Like having not, like, you know, not eating like a potato throughout the meal, like, you know, I I think some people use, like, dextrin or dextrose powder. Some people use, like, you can use fruit juice. Um, our My preference is fruit juice. And then what I would say is, prior to the workout, as far as eating goes, like, I would stick with something carb based and something lighter. I wouldn't eat a full meal unless you had, like, two hours or three hours before you're gonna work out, because, like, you're gonna be too full if you take again, have a heavy, fat meal. At least in my experience, like you're not going to you might be burping up whatever you ate while you work out, because you're basically when you work out, when you start using your muscles, especially depending on, like, what you're doing right? If you're going to be doing a heavy leg day, and you're going to be diverting a lot of blood from your gut to your legs, like it doesn't pair digestion, that's something that I think is important to keep in mind, that when you your body will preferentially reroute blood supply wherever it needs to go, right? So if you're going to start using your brain a lot for an essay, you start moving blood more towards the brain. If you're going to start doing a heavy amount of exercise, like the research shows specifically that at different intensities of exercise, blood flows diverted from the intestine towards the muscles, right? So you that's why it's important and and that can be an issue with endotoxin as well. And you also see that with with like marathons and five ks and stuff like that. Um, where the blood is actually diverted out of the intestine for such a period of time that you actually can get some intestinal damage, right? Yeah, so, and we're not recommending five ks here either. It's just that was just the like, exemplify the point. But yeah, I would say you want to have, like, your bigger meal, sort maybe, and an hour, two hours before the workout, and then while you're in the workout, you can have some type of intra workout carb, especially depending on what you're doing. If you're doing like, a long workout, having those carbs can really be helpful. If it's a short workout or whatever you may not necessarily need. It really depends on what you're doing. But I know at least in my if I was doing a longer body building workout in the past, if after I hit like the 45 minute mark, if I didn't have some carbs, I would really start to feel, you know, like I would really start to feel it if, and then I would try not to go past that time. But this is just, you know, we were just before, like, the this ideology developed for my for us, or for me.

Jay Feldman 48:33
Yeah, you had cut out for a second, but you were saying that in the past, if you work, you were basically saying that for any workout more than 45 minutes, you wanted to have a carb source during it, right?

Mike 48:41
Yeah, because I would just feel like I hit the wall. It would just be like, wow, like, like, I'd be doing good, doing good, doing good. And then all of a sudden I'd start to feel like my adrenaline start to pick up, and that's where I start to knew that I was, you know, I was pushing it at that point. At this point, I wasn't necessarily, like, within the same train of thought. So for me was like, I need to complete the workout. And then I started to realize that having juice and some type of carb source, whatever it was, was actually really helpful for making it past that time.

Jay Feldman 49:11
Yeah, yeah, definitely. So moving on from there. Those are all really great points, definitely really important. Another class of kind of drugs or supplements that are used that I wanted to that you alluded to earlier, is like fat loss drugs and fat loss supplements that drive fat burning and lipolysis, and you mentioned clenbuterol, which is one that's that's used, a pretty strong one. And, yeah, the I don't want to dwell on this too much, it kind of, it's kind of the same question as the pre workout, is, if you're needing to use these for fat loss, then like, why is that? Why is your body not in a place where it can be lean, and is that the best thing for your body at the moment? And how can you get to a place where your body is able to handle that, maybe without these things that have a huge. Cost to them drive stress really hammer that adrenaline stress, you know, HPA access, really hard. That's pretty much how all of them work, in some capacity, is that they're driving that stress system in the equivalent of basically starvation or, like, excess stress. And so it's essentially, like the worst way to lose weight, like I would, I mean, it works.

Mike 50:22
It definitely like the traditional idea is the federal and caffeine aspirin stack, right, right? And then people start realizing that, like, they're getting heart issues with taking too much ephedrine, caffeine and aspirin together. But the caffeine and aspirin could be something that's helpful if done appropriately.

Jay Feldman 50:40
But the whole point is that it's you're not going to get the increase in lipolysis and stress hormones if you're having carbs with the caffeine, for example.

Mike 50:48
Yeah,that's true, and the doses may be a little higher than what we're normally used to.

Jay Feldman 50:52
Exactly. Yeah. So trying to lose weight through those means is not a, we would say, is not a great idea, definitely not ideal health wise. And it's important to recognize that if you are doing that, you're sacrificing certain aspects of your health. And there are ways to lose fad and be lean without using those things. It just might take a little longer. And so again, a lot of these things are used for, like bodybuilding, pre competition, but they're also just used for people who want to lose some weight and are in, you know, deep in that fitness space. So things to consider. We've done some episodes specifically talking about weight loss, and you know, a lot of the things we've talked about the past few episodes have addressed that. So I'll link back to those. And unless there's anything else you want to add, there wasn't going to I don't think of too much else to say about those.

Mike 51:35
No, I just, I just think it's important to point out that, and what our overall picture is, with all the with any type of weight loss or whatever, just briefly is the idea is to just basically optimize what's going on in cellular function and cellular energy production, right? So getting the electron transport chain and Krebs cycle and cell respiration working, and then basically just from there. That's sort of like the foundational point, the hormonal profile, or systems that are sort of overlaying that entire process we want to, like, move in the right direction. So that's, that's, that's the goal, is to change the entire environment, instead of just trying to alter one pathway and force things in one particular direction. I think there's a price to pay down the line with doing that that, I mean, depending on what your context is, you have to determine if you're willing to pay that price or not.

Jay Feldman 52:27
Yeah, yeah. And that price, again, is coming even if you're not using these drugs, but you're just doing, like, heavy calorie deficits or anything that's just based around eating less, cutting carbs, all of those things, or just excessive cardio, or fasted cardio, all those things are working in that same system, and yeah, our goal would be to basically improve that conversion from food to energy so it's not getting stored as fat. There's a lot of different factors there. PUFA is going to block that conversion. Endotoxin will block that conversion. Nutrient deficiencies will block that conversion. Various other aspects, excessive stress will block that conversion. And when you're doing those, when you're relieving those things that block that conversion from food to energy and that system is flowing well, then you don't end up diverting the food towards storage. As body fat and hormones are huge regulators there too, but they're kind of circular there, where when you're producing more energy, it decreases the stress hormones and increases the hormones that help to convert food to energy. There's like, some positive feedback loops, basically. So the goal is to focus on the energy production and then the rest kind of works itself out in that way, as opposed to just trying to either force that conversion from food to energy, like override all those blocks by using a ton of ephedrine, for example. Yep, yeah, we're just like, starving yourself. So so you're forced to basically produce energy through those backup pathways, and again, that ends up coming at a cost a lot of lactate production and ton of reactive oxygen species and stress.

Mike 53:52
You will feel it out like when you use these, these compounds, like, at least for me, like, I've never used ephedrine, but for me and caffeine, we're not 100% like great friends. If I use high dose caffeine like I would feel strongly the ramp up in my sympathetic nervous system and the production of adrenal adrenaline and noradrenaline, I would not be comfortable. Would I lose weight? Probably, probably, definitely lose weight. But I think an important point besides all that just in the overall picture, is that what's going on at the cellular level dictates what happens in the hormonal milieu or environment, right? The hormones are, are the messengers or signals of what's happening cellularly. And it's sort of like it's a system on top of a system, right? So it's your your what happens at the cell is being sensed metabolically by the nervous system, by the liver, by the brain, and then there's a coordinated response afterwards, where you have basically the adaptive systems, or the mobilizing systems need to come into play, which are catabolic, or you need the anabolic systems to come into play. Um. Which is like, but then that's the that's a different shift, right? So it's like, if what's happening at the cellular level, there's ample energy, there's ample whatever, we're going to increase structure. We'll increase progesterone, testosterone, thyroid hormone, whatever. And then on the flip side is, if there's not enough energy available, or there's not enough substrate available for energy, there's something going wrong at the cellular level. Then we start activating mobility, mobilizing systems and backup pathways to, like, keep the system going right. It's like putting tape all over the holes in, like, a million holes in a boat, instead of just like, when the boat works well, when the boat has no holes at all, like, it functions very nicely. Yeah.

Jay Feldman 55:40
And it is, just to clarify, at least from my perspective, it is the energy, the lack of energy, rather than lack of substrate, because so often we see quote, unquote, excess substrate being a symptom of of these conditions that are that really are due to a lack of energy. Diabetes is an example there where you've got more than enough glucose circling around in the blood and in the cells. It's just not being used. That's just a quick.

Mike 56:04
I agree, I was just thinking about in this perspective, because people actually drop their substrate specifically here and to get their effect.

Jay Feldman 56:12
Yeah, yeah. If there's a lack of substrate, there will be a lack of energy, for sure. So that can be a cause, but it's the lack of energy. That's like, the determinant is.

Mike 56:21
The primary, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the main thing that we're looking at, right? Definitely,

Jay Feldman 56:27
yeah. I think it's helpful to always keep those hormones in context, for sure, especially just thinking about how, you know, we're centering the series talking about hormones. And I do have an article, uh, talking about hormones as those messengers, as that second level of of response and signaling. So I'll link to that as well. That kind of digs into some of those things a little in a little more detail.

Mike 56:48
Something I want to bring up here too, just to pose a question, is, how do I want to pose it is, if your horn, if your cellular or your energy state isn't ideal, and you're not producing adequate amounts of testosterone or whatever it is, right? Adding exogenous hormone on top of that may pose a problem for the system, and I want to just throw that out there, because a lot of people are they're moving into like, TRT is a big thing now, and I'm not necessarily against anything like that. But I just like, Guys will hop on TRT right away as soon as they get a low lab result, instead of trying to adjust what's going on at the cellular level, what's going on like in their like their body's environment, their body, like the Malu of their body, like changing lifestyle stuff. And then it converts like, then they get this high conversion to estrogen, and they get these weird symptoms and issues, and then they have to manage it with all these other external drugs, like the state of the body, I think is really important to keep in mind there, and that's as the first as the first piece. It's like, why aren't you producing testosterone? What's going on instead of just throwing it into the system? Right? Because it's a coordinated, regulate, regulated system. And so it's important to recognize that, you know, you can't just throw testosterone on the system and it will some for some people might work right. For some people might move the needle. For so for other people, you start converting to a ton of estrogen, and it's like, well, why? It's like, well, if you were had really high cortisol to start because you weren't eating enough, you weren't sleeping enough. You just came out of, like this extremely ridiculous cut, whatever it was, and your testosterone, whatever it is, you some lifestyle issue where your cortisol is high and your testosterone is low, and then you basically your cortisol is upregulated, your aromatase throughout the body, throwing testosterone on that symptom system is like a recipe to create estrogen so that you got to address, like, if you want to, if I'm not saying two or not two, I mean, I, I, my personal opinion, would be to address what's going on first, like in in lifestyle. But if you want to throw those hormones into the system. I think it's really important to keep in mind that the system has to be adjusted as well to be able to properly utilize those hormones. And you might find that the system will start producing what it needs to produce once, once it's been moved in the right direction.

Jay Feldman 59:15
Yeah, exactly. And there can be a place for using those hormones to help move things along in that direction. If you're doing a lot of those right things, and you've you've removed a lot of those blockages that inhibit, you know, energy production and all of that, using those hormones can help to encourage that positive feedback loop, whether it's thyroid hormones or pregnenolone or anabolic hormones, if used in proper doses, in the right context and all of that. But otherwise, they tend to come at a cost, and I've seen that so often where people have really negative effects when using any sort of pro metabolic hormone, whether it's anabolic or otherwise, and like when they were using it in the context of not eating enough or not sleeping enough, or nutrient deficiencies, and they would have those bad they would have negative side effects, if you will. Have another, just direct effect, and then, and then using it in another context, later on, they're they're actually having really good responses. So so much of it does depend on that, on that context, of what's going on underneath, and are those underlying issues addressed? And really the only situation that I well, I wouldn't say only, but other than certain particular, maybe more rare cases, the main place that I see these hormones having benefits or being ideally used is just as ways to speed up the metabolic adaptation to a better environment. So once you're once you are supplying more substrate, enough nutrients, you've corrected those nutrient deficiencies, you've improved gut health. You don't have all these circulating endotoxin or other gut toxins from other bacteria or other microbes, fungi, and you've addressed sleep, all of those things. Then I think there can be some benefit to using it, using these hormones to help to basically add to the environment, like, add, yeah,

Mike 1:01:01
It's like throwing you a rope if you're in the hole.

Jay Feldman 1:01:03
But yes, it is. But the problem with saying in a hole is, like, a lot of times, I mean, someone hasn't addressed a lot of these things. So I think it's more of like, you've already made a bunch of steps to get out of the hole, and then it's just kind of at the end the rope is helping to, like, get those last few steps you out. Yeah, right. Because what these hormones are as signals, is there are signals. In this case, like the pro metabolic hormones, are signals of a good environment. And so when you have the substrate, not just like food substrate, but the substrate of a good environment in place, whether that's, you know, getting enough sunlight, sleep, all of those things, and then you want to increase the signals of a good environment, it can help to speed that adaptation and speed your own increase in metabolism. And that's the case that I see there being some benefit, as opposed to using it to correct these issues without actually addressing them, to kind of like correct this.

Mike 1:01:56
That's kind of like a pharmaceutical approach to things, right? Instead of looking at things systemically. It's this reduction, reductionistic idea of like, I can just change this one pathway. And so the thing is, is it? Because I think it's hard to parse this out for people, right? It's like the pharmaceutical approach on one side is reductionism, where it's like, your testosterone is low, so we give you testosterone. The other side that the I think we're coming from, or we're trying to present, or that we are presenting, is that we make systemic corrections to the entire bodies, like to your lifestyle, and adjust the entire body's internal and external environment, and then we use these compounds that are signals or alter pathways to nudge the system After the context has been changed in a different direction. It's not to because your testosterone is low. We give you testosterone, or you take testosterone, or DHEA, or whatever it's you adjust all these things and to move the needle a little bit into like, make those, those, those back end changes after the system has been adjusted. As far as lifestyle, micronutrient deficiencies, with macronutrient deficiencies, toxic exposure, gut issues, whatever, to nudge it over. That's that's the point. It's to, like, move the needle, instead of just you low you need this. So the foundation, or the idea behind it, is different, because a lot of these substances are powerful, and a lot of pharmaceutical drugs are pretty powerful. They have a very powerful effect, and with that, they have to be used responsibly. Why is your blood pressure high? Well, you just have a deficiency of of ACE inhibitors, right? You just need, we need to just give you, and that's not actually what anybody says, but it's kind of like the idea, it's like, your blood pressure's high. Oh, we just need to, we'll give you this ace inhibitor and we'll keep lowering your blood pressure. The answer was, never, we're going to give you this ace inhibitor for now to manage what's going on while we fix everything on the back end, right? That that wasn't a thing that happened there and then when, when you see is you just adjust the one piece in the pathway, you start getting all these side effects from the drug, and that's because the drug is just breaking down one pathway, but you still have the pathway still functioning on either side of that block point. So it's important to address to, like, down regulate the pathway with the lifestyle and environmental and and like, internal, external, environmental changes. And then you can also use these modalities in the meantime, depending on what it is, right? I'm not saying we use ACE inhibitors, right? We're not doctors, but there's just the idea.

Jay Feldman 1:04:21
Even if, even if we were, I don't know that we'd be using them, but yes, exactly.

Mike 1:04:26
Ray has talked about Losartan, which is an Angiotensin Receptor Blocker, which and it can be helpful in the right context. Yeah. Yeah.

Jay Feldman 1:04:34
Exactly right. All right. Before we wrap up this episode, I did want to make some clarifications as far as the use of exogenous hormones goes. I know that I mentioned that I generally tend not to use these things until a lot of the foundational aspects of health are in place, but I do think that there is a use for them in order to get some of those foundational aspects of health in place. So as an. Example, I know that a lot of people struggle with gut health, and using some of the pro metabolic hormones, whether those are thyroid based or the sex hormones, using those hormones can help to improve gut health without, you know, maybe using any antimicrobials or any other gut related supplements. So I do think that there's value in using them in that way. I do think they can be a very powerful healing tool in that context, in addition to being used after a lot of those foundational things are in place, to kind of further increase metabolism. So I just wanted to make that clarification. And I have definitely seen a lot of benefits in people who are using these hormones and in these ways, or in the proper context, again, assuming that there is enough nutrition on board, and as as much as can be done has been done from the lifestyle and diet perspective, for improving improving various symptoms and conditions. So they can help to kind of, again, move through sticking points, or to help further increase metabolism. So just wanted to clarify that in the next and final part of our series on men's Hormonal Health, we'll be discussing the best supplements to be using to support Hormonal Health, where today we dissected some of the ones that we might want to be avoiding. If you did enjoy today's episode, please leave a like or comment if you're watching on YouTube, or a review or five star rating if you are listening elsewhere, all of those things really do a lot to help support the podcast, and are very much appreciated. And if you are struggling with any of those hormonal symptoms that we discussed today, whether that's trouble putting on muscle or trouble losing body fat, or low libido or any other hormonal imbalance type symptoms, and maybe you're not sure where to start after listening through these last few parts of this series, or you're unsure where to apply some of this information, or maybe you have been implementing this approach for a little while now, but you're kind of stuck and not sure where to go next. Then head over to Jay Feldman wellness.com/call where you can sign up for a free call with me, where I'd be happy to offer you some suggestions as far as what to do next and what might help the most when it comes to rebalancing those hormones. So again, to sign up for that free call, you can head over to Jay Feldman wellness.com/call, and again, if you are dealing with any of these hormonal symptoms or any other low energy symptoms, whether that is constant cravings and hunger or fatigue or bloating or digestive inflammation, or brain fog or poor sleep, or any other low energy symptoms or chronic health conditions. Then head over to Jay Feldman wellness.com/energy, where you can sign up for a free energy balance mini course, where I'll explain how these different symptoms and conditions are really caused by a lack of energy, and I'll also explain the main things that you can do from the diet and lifestyle perspective to maximize your cellular energy and resolve these symptoms and conditions. So to sign up for that free energy balance mini course, head over to Jay Feldman wellness.com/energy, and with that, I'll see you in the next episode.