Ep. 92: Celebrating Ray Peat

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Jay Feldman 0:01
All right, so for this episode, we're not going to be doing any formal introduction or anything like that, and we're not going to be digging into any nutrition topics or anything along those lines. If you're interested in any of that, feel free to check out earlier episodes. But instead, just recently, we all in case any listeners aren't aware, but we recently heard the very sad, heartbreaking news that Ray peat had passed away, and wanted to do an episode talking about him, remembering him, and just discussing his impact on our lives and just share a little bit of our thoughts and feelings considering that he was someone that, and I think I speak for both of us, but I'm sure you know Mike, you'll corroborate that he was somebody who was a massive, massive inspiration for us, and a an incredible role model, someone that we both looked up, look up to a lot and and would like to emulate and try to, yeah, live up to and so, yeah, I wanted to, I mean, I don't know exactly where to start with this. For for one, if anybody's not aware, Ray Pete, dr, Ray Pete has, he's somewhat of a renaissance man, and has really elucidated a lot of information as far as nutrition goes, and a lot of the basis for a lot of what we discuss. But his work goes far beyond nutrition and delves into larger aspects of biology, and, you know, physiology biology, but also way farther beyond that scope as well, in terms of philosophy and politics and the meaning of life. And you know, anything else along those lines? And those are some of the things that I think are arguably as or if not more impactful than just his. You know, the research and information that he's put out as far as nutrition goes, and when we both came across Ray Pete or something, that dramatically changed the trajectory of our lives, and so maybe we'll talk a little bit about that. But, yeah, I don't know if there's anything you want to start with, Mike. If not, I can keep rambling.

Mike 2:13
Well, I just so I guess I have an interesting perspective on this, or at least I think it's interesting. The I work with a lot of older people in the hospital, people, 80s, 90s, 70s, all different types of ages. Most people, in my experience, aren't aware of their life. They don't really know what happened, how it happened, why it happened. There's not really, like a thought process or analysis, or like a meta awareness about their life and the reasons they've achieved X Y and Z, or have done X Y and Z, and a lot of them, there's not like a heavy reflection or a thought as because I'll ask people, you know what? What would you recommend or like, what is your advice? What are three things you think were really important in changing the course of your life things like that, just to pick people's brains. Now, obviously some people aren't in their best state when I see them in the hospital in ICU, but some people are completely alert and lucid. So it really depends. Obviously, I'm not asking the guy who's withdrawing from alcohol in his 70s what his three most recommended tips are for his life. But I think in contrast to this, when you look at somebody like Dr Pete, he was aware. He was aware of his existence, and questioning his existence and testing things out and seeing how things worked and trying to create models and understandings of of his existence and existence in general. And to have somebody who's done that for 86 years is amazing, not to mention, like the capacity had from a memory perspective, to look back and remember well, in the 1940s in the 1950s XYZ occurred from political perspective, and then this shifted the dietary recommendations, and then you subsequently saw these changes in these disease patterns. Like to have an analysis like that, even if it's N equals one or anecdotal is amazing, and I think it was extremely insightful and helpful for for a lot of us, forever, for many people, I work for myself, especially the other thing that I think he brought to light with this is he looked in research. He was reading research, but he also took his own personal experience into perspective, and then he also took, he was trying to see what was going on politically, in like, the context of things from multiple different perspectives, economically, politically, culturally, and trying to weave a narrative or a picture as far as what was going on and just the example of that. And you can, you don't need to. You can see that in his writing, if you, if you read what he wrote, you can see him starting to weave his experiences together. There with research articles and with the the cultural context. And you get this, this sense that this man was just extremely aware of things that were going on, and was connecting these dots across multiple different spheres and creating these massive pictures and understandings that were, I mean, I think elusive elucidated these like brilliant concepts, not to mention that he was connecting dots from multiple different researchers and Giants in their field. I think the term that I think about the most is Buckminster Fuller. I think he wrote a book it's on like Standing on the Shoulder of Giants, or on the shoulder of giants or something like that. And so Ray peat was a giant in and of himself, but he also, you can see, like all the giants that he relied on to source this different information. And the way I see it is, it's like, at least from my perspective, my job or my responsibility to kind of continue that and stand on the shoulders of Dr Pete, continue his work as best as I can. I mean, he was a brilliant man, so he's set a really high standard. And and go from there, I think, Jay, you probably feel somewhat similar.

Jay Feldman 6:11
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah. And he so there's so many things you brought up. I mean, for one, I think you kind of nailed an important piece, which is that he, I think, lived with awareness, and did that for so many years, that was able to, he was able to put together this extremely complex picture of the world, and that combined with, again, something else you mentioned, this constant questioning of existence and The world around him, and that led to this constellation of, I mean, a very, I guess, just incredibly cohesive view that can also make it difficult for anybody who's like looking from the outside in to have any understanding. I mean, makes trying to understand an individual sentence from an article or a book can have so many layers and can be really difficult to break apart, and that's because of those things. And I think in many ways, he was, he's one of the only figures I could really point to, or at least that I've had been directly impacted by, who, in the modern day, was a true thinker, and like a true Renaissance man, where, you know, he's separated himself so far from from the like, you know, put the square piece in the square holes sort of thing. You know, that typical, like any, any scientist, anybody who calls himself a scientist nowadays, or like a doctor or thinker or the philosopher, I mean the vast majority. And again, this is a huge generality, but at least as far as any you know, the vast majority that I'm coming into contact with or experiencing their work, it just doesn't come anywhere near it's so narrow.

Mike 8:00
It's just, like narrow, it's just, let's find out this one pathway. Or, like, what is the effects of resveratrol on like sirtuins, and then, like, they become an expert in something like that or and so you just get this weird conglomeration of these, these cherry picked ideas from like in this these, like, narrow viewpoints without a broader context. And it's just these, you just get this, like, this is the stack, like, you need NAD and and resveratrol and stuff. And it's like, Dr Pete's work, is it like, that's like a grain of sand in the desert of rock Dr Pete's work, like, putting together, like, the entire perspective of stress, with like, all the hormonal and cellular layers embedded within that framework, and then creating like a view around energy production from like that stress system, and then having everything, like flow through the central perspective. It's just, I don't know like you. Just I, I haven't just like you. I haven't seen any other work be so broad yet also simultaneously comprehensive. Now you, you may disagree with Dr, people may disagree with Dr Pete on like these minor different areas and these different points, but the general principles and overarching picture that he presents, number one, it just, like a lot of people to say, like, when you read his work, it's like, it just kind of makes sense, like the frame with which he created, the frame that he established for things. It just, it's just makes sense. Like, it just, yeah, this is, of course, it works that way. Um, go ahead. Jay.

Jay Feldman 9:38
Yeah it goes from being meaningless, like when you first come across it like nearly meaningless to like the most meaning. And I'd say that because I know a lot of people who might end up being familiar with some of his nutritional ideas, but kind of you know aren't going to read his articles like they aren't excited to go and jump into one of his articles. And I think it's like one of the most exciting things you can do, because. There's so much packed in, and not all the answers are there. Like, there's this perfect combination of dissolving all of the barriers. So you were talking about, like, these lines of physiology, but also dissolving the barriers between the physiology and culture, and like, every aspect of science, not just the physics and the chemistry, but yeah, yeah, just, just the beauty of the world, like, all encapsulated and, yeah, so there's and so I think, as I was saying it, I think he's done the perfect job of, like, not giving you all of the answers and that, but giving you enough to work from. And that frustrates a lot of people. But I think that's also like the I know for me, that that's something that's propelled me to learn in a way that I never had prior. And I think that's something that, like, I feel, have felt so inspired by him to do is, is to, like, think critically and learn. I think those are, like, we can talk about his nutritional paradigm, but as you were saying, like, that's it. That doesn't matter. It's just an extension of the much deeper, more central ideas and principles. And so you mentioned, so there's a couple things I want to put together. You mentioned, like standing on his shoulders and continuing to put his worth his work forward, or kind of work in his like, to produce content or to think even just in his framework, yeah, and so there was a quote that was shared on the repeat forum about, like, grief and losing people. And I think it it said it kind of encapsulates some of this, like the way that Ray answers things, the way that he thinks, and how unique it is and and also that idea as well. And so somebody had asked, I understand this is off topic from what you typically teach, but I was wondering if you've run across any information or learned on your own things that help people grieve over lost loved ones and or fear of losing others to death. Thank you. This was a something that was sent to Ray, and in response, he said, This is in reference to the fear, I think, of losing someone. And he says it activates the helplessness reactions in the body, stress, weakening your own life. And I think it can help to get out of that if you think of your life as a continuation of theirs, the same life, though, with fewer bodies. And yeah, I mean, that's like, Yeah, I think that that's a really nice quote, a good way to think about it, and something that everybody's feeling motivated and inspired to live by is to carry on the life of ray through their own and yeah, so when you know I mentioned earlier, like how much he changed the trajectory of our lives. And again, that's because the information that we were finding of his wasn't just like, here's this different way to eat, right? We had eat in many different ways up until that point. But there, there was, I think, a handful of and I haven't like thought about these and laid them all out, so I guess we'll see where it goes. But there's a handful of things that I think were so strongly emphasized by him that I hadn't heard elsewhere, or haven't or hadn't really integrated from other people, and some of these were the ability to question and think critically, and also just putting those things in the forefront. We talked a lot about anti authoritarianism, and think that was kind of like one of the primary tenets. It goes a lot with the same idea of experimentation and the like and like, the idea that the only protocol is to perceive, think and act. And, yeah, that was like, that changed like, I think it really allowed both of us to separate ourselves. And again, I'm like, saying these things. Now, obviously, just saying it doesn't mean anything. I think for everybody listening, I'd encourage going, you know, reading through his articles on his website, or his books, things like that, listening to his, you know, to interviews. But was something that was, yeah, something that allowed us to separate ourselves from a lot of the the culturally induced thought patterns that we hadn't recognized, and very much changed the trajectory of of how we viewed the world. And I think another piece that goes along with that, I mean, that breeds a lot of different qualities, and I think one of them is curiosity. And the and kind of with, I think the natural effect of curiosity is seeing beauty in the world, probably where other people who aren't as curious don't and I think Ray was exceptional at that. And so. It. Some of my favorite stories of his are, and he's got a lot of really great stories. But one of my favorite stories is, is, what were you thinking of?

Mike 15:10
The ants or the bird with the hose water?

Jay Feldman 15:12
Yeah, it was so the the ants, one, I think, was the main thing I was thinking of there was when he was asked what his favorite animal was, and he said, ants. And I don't remember the details of his answer beyond that.

Mike 15:26
I think there was, like, a friend had ants in the house, and he was like, gonna kill the ants. Like, Ray went over and whispered to the ants that, like, they need to go because he's gonna kill them, and then they didn't come back, or something like that.

Jay Feldman 15:39
I don't think I'd heard that part, but, yeah, he just sees, like, beauty and intelligence where we're taught to ignore, I think that's a good example. And the other one you're talking about with the birds. I know he's, he's got some stories about.

Mike 15:51
There's, he was like, watering the flowers or something in the garden, and the there was a bird there. Just like, wanting him to, like, give the bird some water is like, whistling at him. And then he, like, like, turned the hose over something, and gave the bird some water. He was, like, that the bird was trying to communicate with him and whatnot.

Jay Feldman 16:09
Yeah, yeah. And I've definitely heard him talk about that in terms of communication with animals and like, how, like, how great their capacity is for those things. If you're open and listening to it, are you going to say something?

Mike 16:22
I think that the he just for me, it complete. The thing that changed my entire perspective on things was the meaning that he put into life and existence. Yeah, the general, the general, like mindset that you get from school and from and from like, the current culture, at least Western culture, is this meaningless, like, struggle with in like, like Darwin, like, a NEO Darwinistic element of like, survival of the fittest, and you have to be stressed to grow, and you have to keep pushing. And then Ray just he completely like you, because you don't even know that there's something else besides that, because that's just what you're in, indeed, inundated with from a young age. And it just like, there's not a thought that there's perspectives outside of that. And then when we found Ray, because the other thing is like we I think we found Ray at the right time, because we had gone through this perspectives, and we're just like, we don't feel good, and we have problems, and then you find Ray, and it's like, oh, so there is another perspective and then. But the beauty of it is not that it was just another perspective, but that it created meaning in life. So it was like the idea that the like the interrelation between energy and structure and complexity, and like the universe and existence in and of itself, constantly complexifying and increasing structure over time and things along that instead of which is directly counter to these entropic ideas, where that everything is in decay over time, and like everything is just going to move into nothingness again, it's like it that takes the purpose out of existence, whereas Ray's framework creates, like, literally puts existence as a purposeful endeavor in and of itself. That is literally the existence is there to create purpose. So it's that, like, that entire like thought process and understanding, like internalizing, that completely changed my my belief system overall. It's almost like it's, I guess it's kind of weird, and I think I'll probably get some hate for saying this, but it's almost, to some extent, like a religious or spiritual experience, to come to the understanding that, like the world and the the entirety of what we're living in is moving towards a purposeful direction, and like the goal or the outcome dependent is to like, move in that direction and that you can modulate factors in your environment such you can further amplify that process. And the thing is, you see this play out with people. You see it play out with yourself. You come from carnivore, and you're rigid. You're rigid as hell. You feel like crap. You're tired, maybe you're like, stressed out, you're super intense. And then it's like you bring on some carbohydrates, you adjust your diet, your gut health gets improved. And it's like you're so much more relaxed, like your awareness is able to expand. You don't feel so rigid in your thought process is easier to learn. It's easier to interact with other people. And you start seeing like, especially when you reach Ray's work, and you see like, he incorporates the his whole frame, his whole perspective, with the research, and then with his personal experiences, and then with like, the different experimentation and reference experiences that he's built up. And then you like, do that yourself. And you see when you work with their clients, or you work with yourself, or you just see experiences with other people, like talking about their experience in the forum. And then you read research, and you start to put all of these things together. You start to see, well, Ray's stuff is kind of like, it's kind of making sense, like you're kind of seeing this pattern on. Unfold in a similar direction with people. And yeah, that for me, that was like, I think when I when I found race stuff, I was probably like, at my lowest point when I was in college with all the fasting and, like, my family stuff and the excess exercise and just like, having all these problems, like the health problems that I was having, and then, like, I think that perspective was something that, like, when I finally internalized, it turned things around for me, and it made a massive difference in my life and my ability to cope with the things that I was, that I was going that I was going through, because I realized that my like, I could put adjust inputs in myself, and that will change the different outputs that I had going on. And it wasn't a meaningless process. It was a purposeful process. It was like that, in and of itself, was like amazing for me, and I just, I remember, like the feeling that I even get thinking about it now, like the feeling that I have about it, it's like a energizing feeling, like an uplifting feeling, like you can do something to improve what's going on. And I think if people internalize that individually, on like, a larger scale, like it could, like, it makes a massive difference, because you kind of take the reins and control and responsibility for yourself. You stop, like, just doing whatever because of because there's a lack of purpose with things, and you can start to change and improve things in your life and other people's eyes, etc.

Jay Feldman 21:25
Yeah, yeah. I remember having those, you know, we experienced a lot of those things, yeah. I mean, yeah, we would like, whether it was like, reading an article or listening to an interview or something, and then we would just go outside in the sun and, like, throw a football around and just talk about it for many hours and contemplate and just explore. And, yeah, that was, that's, I think it was something that, like, was quite literally life giving. And like, you were talking about the, like, thought processes that were told not only in school, but it's like something that permeates everywhere, like the meaninglessness, the randomness that exists. Oh, one other thing I wanted to get back to too. I mean talking about religion, which you were saying like that there's like a religious aspect, and I think you were saying more like a deeply spiritually meaningful, not religious, and that it's like a tribal, like blind faith sort of situation.

Mike 22:25
Yeah, It's not dogma. It's more of, like dogmatic, yeah. Well, I think I know you just a slight tangent. When you get down and you boil all this down to a certain level, there is an element of belief that has to come into play, no matter how much research that you have, and so you like what, what that underlying belief is, if it's a belief in nothingness and that there's entropy and randomness and disorder and chaos that I think, permeates the basis of the of your further thought processes all down the line, but if you have a belief in meaning and a belief in creativeness and a belief in purpose that will subsequently change your your it's like a domino effect. Your further thought processes get completely adjusted down the line, and your perspective on things also gets adjusted. So, yeah, that's where I come. That's where I think it like gets to a spiritual element. It's like your your foundational philosophical framework and belief system at its core.

Jay Feldman 23:27
Yeah, but those belief systems are not based on nothing like we base those around the evidence that we see around us. And I think the cultural programming largely involves an interpretation of those things as largely being meaningless. Sorry, this might sound like I'm disagreeing with you. I like, fully agree, yeah, and, and that's, that's kind of what we were saying. But instead, like taking, it's not just a matter of taking a perspective of meaning on faith, but rather seeing that as evidenced by even just, like biology and function and like, how energy does it interrelate with structure and great complexity and the evidence of a natural complexifying like energy, driving force that has its own meaning. And then when you have a thought, or you have an action, or you do something that makes you that like, improves your function. And feeling like that is not selfish anymore, like it can be a selfless like that becomes a selfless act that is providing for the rest of existence, the rest of the world, but the rest of existence. And yeah. So there's, I think that's huge, like it does give, like, this meaning and direction that, yeah, I think, is invaluable as far as exploring goes, and and it's on one hand, tragic that I think, and I I've experienced this, like, I know of friends who deal. With like who wrestle with that nihilism. And I think this largely like social programming that creates that. And yeah, I think that Ray was aware of how meaningful or how sorry, how important the it is to have this meaning and to provide this meaning through the evidence that he would provide. And I think this is part of why, like, he has that quote where he basically says that the reason why he talks so much about nutrition is basically, and I'm like, very much paraphrasing, but basically that is more palatable, whereas when you talk about culture or meaning or spirituality or politics, there's so much that we've programmed in about even a particular word, that it triggers such a reaction that we can actually listen and entertain different views and and consider them. And so nutrition is like through through his lens. And not just nutrition, but nutrition, health and physiology, is like a gateway to those other views. And I think the other views that he's we've like woven together are just a direct byproduct. I mean, they're coming from the exact same center as the nutritional principles.

Mike 26:07
Well, I think you see that too with people, right? Because you, you get into nutrition stuff, and it when you, when you change your physiology. So I guess let me preface this first in my, my, perspective, your consciousness is a product of your physiology. You don't there's not the separation of mind and body. So when you when you effectively change your physiology through nutrition, through manipulating your lifestyle, through whatever means, whatever these different means are, exercise, sleep, whatever it is, when you start to dial those things in, you start to see that your consciousness and your awareness adjusts. And I think for a lot of people, there's like steps, there's like a process that you go through. So you're at first, it's like, I'm just trying to figure out how I can feel better. I'm just trying to get out of this hole. And then you get out of the hole, and you start to feel better, and then you start to realize that, like, there's all these possibilities with life, and that there's these directions that you can go into. And I think Pete, like embodied that with his work, is like the meaningfulness and and the like multitude of directions of life and living, and like the purpose, the purposefulness of it, and like the capacity that people have, which is, and the thing is, is like, there's this constant idea, and I hear it a lot, actually, from like, from cert, like, post, some of my family members and things like that, that like, humans are just the plague, or humans are a parasite, or humans are this, or humans are that. And it's like humans can be those things. They can be those things. If you create a garbage environment for people, then you're gonna get garbage outcomes. That's it's just, but there's that context, isn't there? That's just the ideas that humans, in and of themselves, are the problem, not that the environment that is being created for people is the problem in and of itself. So it's like Ray, I think for me, that was like another big thing, another big idea that came out from his work is like, if you adjust the context, and you adjust the physiology of the individual, and you get them into these higher energy states, they're able to process and function at higher complexity, and then humans can be some of the best resources possible because of Our capabilities. So you can either optimize the environment and optimize the humans and get these amazing outputs, or you can just have everybody live in like, squalor, and then you get crap. So it's like, there's the possibilities and the the the meaningfulness and like, the ability to adjust your existence is something that I feel like was super important with Ray and Ray's work, and it was like, I don't know it completely, because I when I grew up, I grew up with that same ideology. It's like, oh, humans are just X, Y and Z, like, they cause X, Y and Z problems, all this type of stuff. And then, like, when I started to see the changes in myself, where as I like, as I got to a better state, as I felt better overall, like I was able to do more for other people, and able to make a greater, a great difference in other people's lives, in my own life. And then when you look at Ray, like the work and the the information that he put out there, maybe it wasn't, maybe he didn't have a gazillion followers on Instagram, who cares, but the work that he created now goes forward and touched the lives of so many people and created such a massive benefit. And it was just through his awareness and through his like, following his inclinations and trying to to make sense of his existence and optimize himself that he was able to like, create all this this positivity and value for people, and this meaningfulness so and then that that bleeds other people right, like now you and I are producing content along the same lines, and experimenting with his principles and moving forward with that. Danny's there. Georgie is there? All these different people are coming out and trying to or like are trying to emulate Pete and fall it can continue his work and whatnot. So I think. Like, yeah, they think you the possibility aspect was another huge important possibility, depending upon like, the context of the individual, was another massively important element.

Jay Feldman 30:10
Yeah, yeah. The one thing you touched on that goes kind of like visualizing it, like talking about our like, there's this inherent separateness that we that like we're taught to view ourselves as like, we are independent of our environment. We're independent of the environment before us. We are independent of each other, or like the literal things around us or the beings around us. And instead the like, evidence for and recognition of the amount of interaction to the point like, the amount of interaction between us and everything in our environment, to the point where we are just purely like, we just are the same, like we are just like, I don't even want to say we're the product of it, because we just like, it's just a constant interchange, but it's like, so coming back to this idea that humans are plague versus humans are good. One other area that I think was, like, really helpful for me, or made a big difference for me in the way I saw the world, was recognizing how much our environment shapes the way that we think and feel. And our environment doesn't mean just the pollutants and the air that we're breathing right now, or whatever it means everything that has shaped our existence up to this point, which is everything like it is every generation before us. It is every single thing that was in their environment that then all I don't even want it wasn't just signaling like there was literal shifts and changes in structure that led to wherever we are now. And so I think it it allows for empathy and it allows for understanding, yeah, yeah, yeah, as opposed to blame. And I think that's like, yeah. And I think that's invaluable.

Mike 32:02
What creates a course mentality when you're dealing with somebody who has XYZ situation and you understand what they went through, their diets, or whatever it is, and it's like, yeah, of course you feel this way of like, why would you not based on everything and taking and also can taking all those valuable those variables into consideration, because they're not taken into consideration, right? It's like there's so many elements to adjust. The other thing, I think that, and you all just a quick you go ahead after, is the ray, like he put it into perspective, like all these things affect us, and we are an extension of this, but we also have the capability to take the reins of these things and make the adjustments going forward and adjust positively into the future, instead of just like having this degra degrading effect over the like, over the long term, and the shift in perspective and philosophy is what adjust, whether it's moving in a positive or like, a more negative direction, And then contrasting like the current cultures. I remember he said, like, it's a death culture, and it is a death culture, and it's like the the culture itself, and like the perspective is like a cancerous element that pushes people in these negative directions. And it's not they, like, completely invalidates their ability to take the reins of these things, because it just discounts them as even possible.

Jay Feldman 33:25
Yeah, and one of the most prominent pieces of that culture is this us versus them mentality, the separateness, and the kind of flip side of that is, is what I was mentioning and and recognizing that not only are we all the same, but also getting to a point where we are able to have that empathy because of the recognition of what has allowed, what has brought somebody else, to a point where they have a certain action or belief and it completely like abolishes that mentality of like the us versus them, like the idea that any human around us is a plague, or is an enemy, or is anything other than...

Mike 34:06
Like, like a competition, right? Like everyone around competition, right?

Jay Feldman 34:12
Yeah, eliminating that idea, yeah, instead, yeah, that kind of intense camaraderie and recognition that we're we're like, we're all, we're all a piece of the same. We're all working toward the same thing, like having trouble articulating it.

Mike 34:28
It's like the competitiveness versus like competition. That's like, in competition, it's just collaboration aspect.

Jay Feldman 34:35
Yeah, or cooperation. But the cooperation, like coming out of a place, not of just saying, like, oh, we can do more if we work together, but rather just the recognition that like we like are all the same, like we are all together, and they're like as a as a unit. We're all moving in one direction or the other and and if we're competing with each other, it's. Going to push us more in to a direction of the death culture.

Mike 35:05
Well, and then the competition being a product of the physiology, right? And that was like, Ray was talking about, like the locus stuff, where it's like, resources become scarce, grasshoppers turn into locusts, and then it's working through the serotonergic system. And then they making extensions of that to humanity and society. Like, it's just that's just like a mind blowing, a mind blowing perspective. I remember we were, like, having conversations about because this is one of your favorite topics, right? Is the like, Darwin versus Lamarck evolution, competition versus cooperation stuff. So, like, you have, I know where you like, keep teasing that we're going to do a series on it, but it's like, this is your pet project. I remember it was like, mind blowing for both of us to, like, put that into perspective and be like, Oh, yeah. Like, that makes sense. Then you and then you, like, see it in your own environment with people. And you like, you look at different portion of society, like, of course they're like, these parts are going to be degraded because there's so there's such a lack of resource and environmental enrichment in these certain areas, and you're of course, going to get these outcomes for these people.

Jay Feldman 36:08
Yeah, yeah and we will do that series at some point, for sure, and in others, like along the same thought processes and maybe exploring these ideas a lot more, I'd love to spend that time and dig into them, yeah, yeah, there's a lot of, there's, there's also, like the, and I know some of these were shared by Georgie as well. Like the, some of those rat experiments, like showing that they'll sacrifice something for themselves to help, you know, to help others. And like sharing food and like helping another rat escape from a cage, even if resources are scarce, and things like that, like the inherent good that exists, and desire to help others, which, again, there's the whole pessimistic view that that's just selfish and, you know, the whole idea of selfish gene. But again, we'll have to dig into that in in that evolution Series.

Mike 36:59
I think it like put into perspective that there's like a spectrum, and it's dependent upon like environmental and like, there's like environmental elements, resource availability, and then like actual structure and energy of the individual. So like, when structure and energy of the individual are low, there's like rigidness and like a like a movement of the hormonal energy systems towards conserving for the self, and then when like, the environment and whatnot is enriched, you start to see, like, these more altruistic behavior patterns come into play. So it's though, like, that's, I mean, this is exactly what we've been talking about the past couple minutes. But it's like, when you put that into perspective, and you extend it across, like a from a societal perspective, you start to see, wow, like, what would be possible if people started to collaborate, and people started to try to, like, improve their entire environment. And again, it's not just like climate change or pollution, it's like environmental existence in general, like formation of communities, adjustment and working culture, quality of food, access to food, like, quality of interaction, like the actual education process, things along those lines. Because a lot of us, like, even you and I, was talking about this before the call, like, for both of us, like, our our 20s were spent, like, just trying to figure out, how are we going to, like, make the rent and pay the bills, type of stuff. And it's only now, at this point that...

Jay Feldman 38:23
We still got some years left.

Mike 38:25
Oh yeah, but it's like, I remember, like we were, it was much harder earlier on. And now, as you like, as you get to this point, you're or as you progress more, it's like, now you start to have more time to start to like, do these other projects that you always wanted to do, or get involved in these things that you, that you, like, Were always interested in doing and pushing forward and whatnot, whereas before is, like, couldn't even do it just because you, you had to pay rent. Rent had to be paid, the food had to be paid, like, whatever the deal was. So it's death culture. That's culture, yeah, and then, but like, in to the culture, and like, as an extension to death culture, it's like, it's glorified. I do X number of hours a week, and I, I, like, stress myself out in X way. And I cold fast, I cold exposure, like, I take cold showers, and I fast all day long. And then I work 80 hours a week, and then I run a marathon. And then it's like, yeah. And then I got 34 years old. You like, have whatever problem. Like, you have all these problems. Like you just, you're just done, you're cooked, or 30 years old, or whatever it is. It's like the culture celebrates that stuff, instead of, like, a an element of like, taking care of yourself and like, and modifying these things in like, more of a beneficial way, and not tapping into the stress and whatnot.

Jay Feldman 39:40
And what's the cost to your humanity, and do you feel some of those things we were describing, as far as the empathy for the people around you, and a sense of community and selflessness and a lack of ego and and I think those are so those, something else that I wanted to touch on was like, raise. Is selflessness and generosity and like he so, so the amount of like emails that he would respond to just freely, like, never asked for anything like he would. And this is tough. Like, I get a lot of emails in my inbox, and it's tough not to become like, frustrated when you feel like, and again, part of this brought out, as you said, like talking about, like, oh, I need to pay the bills sort of thing. It's like, I can't spend all day responding to emails to people who are genuinely probably amazing, people who could really use help. And of course, like, we are always trying to create situations that allow us to help those people. But Ray being somebody who was incredibly generous with his time and energy and effort. And I like the number of people. So I was listening to I listened to the remembering repeat episode on Danny Roddy's generative energy podcast. I think it was episode 90, and the amount of people who between there and like the Facebook groups and seeing posts on Instagram and posts in the repeat forum, the amount of people who said that they had conversations with Ray through email, the amount of people who said that, you know, 15 years ago they were having this issue and they picked up a bottle of progesti and were told by the the clerk at the health food store, maybe was 20 years ago, you know. And they're told like, oh, talk with this guy. And they called Ray, and Ray had no idea who they were, and talked with them every day for a month, and, like, helped them fix whatever issue. Or just the number of people who said that, like, their lives were literally saved by Him. Again, just selflessly, generously giving to like, you know, again, whether it was talking to them on the phone or answering their emails or whatever it was. Yeah, I mean, it's, like, monumental, is just, it's, I think, such a huge testament to everything that he preached and and taught and explored, and also just like an inspiration to me and, and, yeah, he was, and again, like all of the free articles and the very inexpensive newsletters and the many free interviews, you know him dealing with all them on the phone because he wouldn't use the computer, cell phone, or whatever the situation was, you know him with His with the landline, like he Yeah, he was incredibly generous and selfless and giving. And like, the amount of of content and like, work that he did was just incredible. And I think anybody could spend a lifetime, like, digging through it all and trying to put those pieces together and understand the people who he would cite and share to the extent that he did, yeah, I mean, it would take a whole life of living that which I think is something that everybody in the community is feeling inspired and motivated to share the burden of and try to continue with and and that's there's one other piece of of him that I think is important, that I want to touch on, and which is just, again, the lack of ego and the fact that he never cared about recognition. He never cared that, like whether certain people accepted his views, he never cared like, again, you said followers. I mean, he's never had a social media account or anything like that. And you know, when there was, I talked about this on a, I think it was on a bioenergetic helpline. But recently, the whole, there was, like, some big papers talking about how the, like, serotonin model of depression, like, there was all this evidence against it. It wasn't actually reality. And this is something that Ray's talked about for a very long time.

Mike 43:41
Like, like, there's so many things that Ray was, like, 30 years ahead of his time on before, yeah, coconut oil was, like, the craze in the Paleo sphere. It's like, Ray has a 1970s coconut oil article.

Jay Feldman 43:53
Yeah, yeah. He was doing keto again, and way back then, which book was, like, written in the 70s.

Mike 44:00
For women or something, yeah, Gus is, like, all these supplements and like, all this stuff that people in like, 2020 are like, yeah, like, vitamin b6 and tyrosine is like, Yeah, I know I'm saying that Ray, like, specifically mentioned that, but like, he was talking about all the vitamins and all these different things, like, 50 years ahead of everyone, like He was so far ahead of of his time that. And like, people even in, like, the early, like, maybe 2000 teens, like 2010 to 2020 like, there was all these paleo, low carb advocates and whatnot. And like, they just, like, would bash ray or, like, call him a quack and stuff like that. And then you just, it's like, now everyone's like, coming around those ideas, like, oh yeah, carbs. It's like, oh that repeat guys, like, he's literally been discussing the mechanism and the reasoning.

Yeah, never heard of him at all.

Jay Feldman 44:52
But just like I came up with these ideas myself.

Mike 44:54
Like the Omega six stuff, right? Like, the Omega six stuff came out in like, I don't know, sorry. Getting, like, big with the Paleo stuff. But like, big names, like Dr. Mercola just started promoting it within, like, the last couple years. It's like, Ray Pete has been talking about the problems with Omega six before the 2000s even started. Yeah, 20 years later, people, or even longer, people are like, Oh, Omega six is a problem. That's the big problem. It's not that carbs is a problem. You can bleach switch. No mention of Ray, but like, his work has been around and talking about all of these things that are coming to the forefront now, like way before it was hitting. I mean, we thought we were ahead of our time when we were reading Ray's work and talking about Omega six and the benefits of carbs and stuff like that coming from like the Keto and stuff in like 2013 2014 2015 14, 2015 but it's like, when you look at the dates and stuff, Ray was doing this decades before, it was like he had already he's like, this is already done. Like, this is decided. This is understood.

Jay Feldman 45:52
Yeah, yeah, just wait until the Omega three side hits right. Everyone's on board with the seed oils and Omega sixes. But we'll see how, how long it takes to convert everyone to the anti fish oil side of things. But the one I was getting at before was so in terms of the depression and serotonin. This, these papers, this, like, big study that came out wasn't talking about, like, oh, serotonin is harmful, hibernation, hormone, all those things you're just saying, like serotonin, like, low serotonin doesn't cause depression. That's clear based on the research, and I think on generative energy. They had asked Ray about it, and he just was like, oh, like, it was some something positive. It was like, Oh, that's great that, like, they're saying that now, or something. I don't remember what exactly it was. And with all of these things, whether it's people who are basically saying verbatim things that he's been saying for decades. That's kind of what I was alluding to, like people saying like quotes of his, but saying they've never heard of him, kind of thing. But whether it's that or just his ideas that have absolutely permeated throughout the the health, nutrition, alternative health world, again without the recognition, or, again, the mainstream ideas where, like, instead of him feeling some like...

Mike 47:09
inspiration that he wouldn't recognize?

Jay Feldman 47:11
Yeah. Instead of, instead of that, it's just this, there's like, no ego. It's like, I really like, it's just like, this incredibly positive feeling that things are heading in that direction. Like, what a great thing to witness and experience and to see going forward in the future. Like to hope that that actually happens and starts to shift the deeper things too. And I know, like I have felt the I'm trying to think what the word is, but, with that feeling when somebody else is like, saying something, as if it's new, when it's something you've been saying for years, and I kind of, yeah, feeling like it's like, it's not like, there's the validation, it's it's like, it's a...

Mike 47:55
It's just frustrating because you've been like, putting it out on the radar, and then somebody who has, Like, a larger audience, or somebody, or something comes by, picks up the topic, brands it as their own thing, and then sells it as if they've, like, been talking about it, or this was part of their paradigm, and then doesn't give credit to where, like, the people who have been talking about or discussing it, or, like, advancing the thing. Like, that's that is very frustrating, and it is nice, like, Pete never came across that way, that he felt that way, but I felt that way for him, like when I saw the Omega six stuff, like, when I Who is it? Is it Tucker? I don't know...

Jay Feldman 48:32
Tucker Goodrich?

Mike 48:35
Tucker Goodrich, like when I saw him talking about, like, on the there was, like, a DR Mercola interview, and they were talking about it, and I was just like, This guy is advancing nothing new. Like, this is something that Dr P has discussed for extended periods of time, the problems with Omega six and seed oils. And it's like, this is like a revelation. Is presenting it as, like, this research that he did and yada yada. It's like that has already been done, like it's already known. It's been covered extensively. Dr Pete has discussed it in like, gazillions of hours worth of podcasts and interviews and articles, etc, and in some of his books. And so, yeah, I felt the frustration from that perspective, not because I felt like I was a like, I'm this anti PUFA guy or whatever. It's more like the work was coming from Dr Pete, and there was no credit given to it, and the way it's discussed, and the problems with Omega six was so closely aligned with the things that Dr Pete were talking about that it's just like, it just fell off to me, like I feel and so, yeah, I know what you're saying, but Dr P was like, Oh, this is great, everybody. No, people are gonna start to see that seed oils are a problem now, like, yeah, he was such a like, such a different perspective, right? Because I feel like most people would be irritated by that.

Jay Feldman 49:48
But that, yeah and, but everything he did, like, like, in not caring about having a following or making like, profiting off of his ideas, or anything like that. I mean, that's, that's the whole point. I mean, that's a. Piece of it to try to work toward, to try to try to further on, right? It's not just about the information. It's those ideas and and feelings and concepts and caring with that like selflessness and that lack of ego. I mean, I think is incredibly important, like and this, this, when you look at it, the stupid thing is, if you feel like you were the first one to put forward an idea, and then there's Ray. But Ray was, as you said, like building off the Giants before him, right? It's like, that's the whole point is, is it's all one line of connection from generations and generations, and it's not about any individual being, like deserving the recognition that's that's part of the whole problem.

Mike 50:46
You wishing of the ideas and concepts,

Jay Feldman 50:49
Yeah, the progressing of it, and allowing the and like allowing that to be the progression of humanity, like allowing that to contribute to the progression of humanity, and the benefit to again, if not only benefiting humanity but just the like existence, that's the whole point. So those are some of those things that I think, I think we're keeping front of mind.

Mike 51:10
Funniest thing for me, in terms of Ray's selflessness is when he's on podcast and people ask him a question, he never shuts them down, even for like, the most ridiculous questions that are clearly not aligned with his work and like, the things that he discussed, he never shuts anyone down. He's very much like. You can only tell if he disagrees to some extent by the tone with which he says yes. So it's like, like, he'll always say yes, and then he'll just give an explanation. He never tells somebody No, that's not right. And I think that like lends credence to his like, just how he was as a person as well. Just he never wanted to shut anybody down. He never wanted them to like, he never wanted to create a circumstance where it's like, I'm right, you're wrong. type of situation. It was always coming from the, like, a learning perspective, or, like, having the person come to their own understandings of these things and whatnot. But yeah, I just every time I just, like, you would have to try to you'd listen to you. It forced you to pay attention, because you'd have to really unders, like, listen to the tone of his yes or yeah haha

Jay Feldman 51:11
Or the surprise in his Oh yeah, really surprised, because the question isn't great, yeah, it's not always the case, but..

Mike 52:28
Yeah, I just, I always got a kick out of that. I always thought that that was hilarious. But I also, under, I also, like, in working with people over time, like, I also understood why he did that, and I feel like it was, it's quite a valuable perspective to not shut people down, to not make them feel like it's because it's not a perspective of right or wrong. It's a perspective of, like, just figuring out what works. So Ray was, I feel like Ray always came from that perspective, and he I know it frustrates people because it's like, like, a lot of people like, okay, so what do I do? Like, what do I eat? Like, what is Ray? What does Ray think I should eat? And, but Ray never proposed things like that. It like he had, it was just like, here's like, a general example, like, two quarts of milk and a quart of orange juice type of thing. But it was like, he because it's, there's so much ambiguity around it, because the per, I think the perspective was, the was, was the perceived, Think, Act element of try to figure out what works for you. And like, when p i remember, there's like, a couple of questions people ask him, and it's like, what's the best way to eat, or things like that. It's like, anything that gets the energy metabolism flowing, like answers like that. And I think that those were like that. Perspective is actually really helpful in the long run, because it it gets rid of the authoritative perspective of, okay, I You have to eat just this. And it moves it towards, like building it into you need to figure out what, what works for your context. Here's the set of principles, and here's these ideas, and here's a framework for things, and you, like, you have to work with it yourself. Because if you're not imbued in the process, and you don't, aren't taking responsibility for your own existence and your own purpose and your own direction, then, like, that's the feeding in and of itself. Like that is inactivating for the physiology in and of itself. Now, in some circumstances, obviously people just need help, right? They're like, in a hole and whatnot. But I think in the old, greater overarching perspective, Ray always created this, this element of like, advent of trying to build your own reference experiences, try to understand your own context, try to test different things out and play with them and see what works for you and like you even see that as him as an example, right where he's he's always testing things. So like people, I think, get frustrated because Ray Is it like he gives different answers at different times. And I think that the answers were always dependent upon, like, the way I saw it, at least, or interpreted it was, they were dependent upon. What he was doing in that moment. So it was like what he was experimenting with, or what his perspective with in that moment is, what is how his answers were geared. And like watching him give these different answers at different times allowed me to understand like that everything was currently was like a constant experiment for him, or like a constant trying to figure out and test and play with his existence and see what works. And then I, for me, I brought that obviously, into my own practice for myself, and then also the people I work with, because you come to a certain point you realize, like, I don't know how you Jay are going to interact with squash or pregnant alone, like, I have zero idea how it's going to affect you. I can give you like, like an hypothesis, or like, you know, maybe this, maybe that, but the only way to really know is to test it out and to see what your experience with what is with it, and then go from there. Because sometimes people get like, these ridiculous negative experiences, and then other times, people like, they do really well with it, and they really like it as a substance. So it's just, I think Ray brought that to the framework, and he got rid of, like, any elements of rigidity for me, like, I, at least that was what I took from it, like, and not rigid about things. I'm more open to testing things, as long as we have, like, again, you perceive what you're experiencing. You think about solutions. You think about possible options for things you you're going to use pregnantal Try to understand how it's working, and then you the acting part as you go on, you test that out. So I think like he gave this framework for testing, he gave this framework for interacting with people who need help, and he gave this, like, massive perspective and philosophy in terms of understanding existence, like, there's so much value in all of those things. It has nothing to do with milk and orange juice and liver, oysters and fruit. It's like that is like the I think for me, that was like, the most massive value that I got from him was, like, these ideas and concepts and frameworks and philosophies on things and like that massively changed my life and how I go about my own life and how I interact with other people, and how I understand all of the different circumstances and context with which I function in it just, I think it set me up to be in like a such a better place than where I was going, because I was, I was going down the biohacking train minerman fasting and cold showers and sister two in pathways and keto and ancestral stuff, etc. Like it was going down that way, but, like, struggling and not being able to make sense of it because the frameworks that I had weren't correct. And then when, like, going with Pete is like, Oh, it was like, once the once the framework was right, things just started to fall in line now, like it wasn't a linear path up there's like, ups and downs, but that's part of the testing process and the reference experience and building from that perspective.

Jay Feldman 57:51
Yeah, yeah, I agree. No. I mean, yeah, I think the experimentation was, was a huge piece. I think, as you said, like, his openness and like the, like, never shutting people down, but also being open to kind of any possibility being, I think, a key, a key part as well.

Mike 58:22
Yeah. Like, people ask him about the carnivore diet. It's like, do you think the carnivore diet can do X, Y and Z, and then, like, he's like, yes, like, it has it can help with, like, X, Y and Z. So it's like, he never was like, No, it's a diet. He was always like, yes, there's these benefits. Which is just, yeah, I know it creates some confusion for people, but it's also, it's also, like, I think it was helpful, because, like, he, he's not wrong. Like, there are benefits to some of these things, which obviously, you know, we've talked about before and recognized, just as an example.

Jay Feldman 58:57
I think as something you're getting at, as well as, well as, like, His form of sharing information was not something that people were used to, and so, you know, wasn't everyone's flavor. And people like, wouldn't, it just wasn't the answer they was looking for. But obviously it was way more valuable of an answer. And the many, many people who would take that and dig further and look for answers and look at his, you know, other information that he shared, I think, got more value from it than they would have ever hoped otherwise.

Mike 59:32
Yeah. I mean, I think people are looking for like, a Dave Asprey book type of answer, and Ray Pete's answers are like, well, it depends on this context kind of situation. And I think that's another thing that I think was really valuable that he brought up, is the idea of context, and the idea of understanding that your current circumstance will alter your outcomes, even with the same inputs. And so. Right? And that's something that is not like, you know, it's not discussed. It's like, the I there's this idea that the context is consistent. And there were the environmental elements are somewhat consistent. It's like, in it's an implied in a lot of people's understanding of things. And so when you start like, even when you first start talking people, it's like, well, maybe now you don't do well with progesterone, like some women, but let's do X, Y and Z, and then, oh, well, now you try to progesterone like, oh, wow, I feel great. And then so it's like that adjustment in the context and the different situations where at one point in time you may not do well something, and at another point in time you'll do well with something, or like, just understanding, like, the context of different cultural elements or pieces or different like, the research within a perspective of the context. Like, always trying to understand context was something that I think that Ray like really brought to the forefront for us, or at least for me, and in my understanding of things and making like on, taking that into extreme, like, into primary perspective, instead of like, this implied because, like, you have this idea, like, oh, keto is good for everyone under different circumstances. And you watch, like, during the pandemic and all this stress stuff, like, all these keto advocates being like, oh, I need carbs now. And it's like, yeah, with under, when you're under increased stress your and your context has been adjusted to that perspective. You're like, like, you're gonna reach for something to manage that. And so, yeah, just very, I think that was like a really valuable piece, that Ray brought, at least to the forefront for me.

Jay Feldman 1:01:39
Yeah, no, absolutely, yeah, I'd agree there's one other thing I kind of wanted to close with. But I don't know if you had many other things you wanted to touch.

Mike 1:01:50
I mean, I could rant about all the things that Ray like, the improvements and the things that I learned from him and how to continue to learn from his work for like, for hours on end. Like, it's something that I think for me, is extremely exciting, because it's so personal, the the level of change in my life, and the amount of like respect that I have for him, and the thing is, like, I've never talked to Ray. I've never had a conversation with him. I think I sent him, like, two emails trying to understand, like I when I was trying to understand.

Jay Feldman 1:02:18
We were on the the call with them once, but oh well, yeah, with the but that we didn't really get to talk to him,

Mike 1:02:26
But yeah, just like he literally was like a mentor to me. I feel like he, like his work was a mentor to me, regardless, without even never having to talk with him, like it was just that powerful, because, you know, you go online. You there's like, there's researchers who put out interesting content, like, we always talk about AJ holbert's membrane pacemaker theory stuff. And there's like, different blog authors who have, like, all these interesting theories and things like that. But I never consider them mentors, because I don't like they teach you some type of, some type of knowledge. But I feel like Ray's work created a level of wisdom and understanding and, like, a set of principles to exist that were, like, far beyond understanding. Like, what happens with PUFA in the membrane? Like, it was just this massive, I can't like, is the the work was just so encompassing, just so massive, just so monumental, and then, like, there's, it's also set the tone for, I think, like, lifetime's worth of future experience and understanding of, like, not only his work, but the people, like the other people that he references, like, I'm, like, we got into Hans Selye work and was reading Hans Selye books because of Ray, or, like, I was reading Buckminster Fuller stuff because of Ray. And so there's just all these different authors. Like, Ray is like a gateway drug to all of these perspectives, and then the same thing, like, even the before Ray, like, I don't think I ever fully got imbued, like I didn't. I didn't get fully imbued in, like, these alternative theories on what was going on in current events in the world. And once, like, again, once I changed my diet, I started to feel better, etc. I started to like, I knew things weren't right, but I just didn't have the energy or the time or the wherewithal to care about it, because I was only primarily focused on myself and trying to figure out what was wrong with me and get better. And then once I felt better and I was able to expand my awareness, like Ray was like a gateway into that as well. Was like trying to, like, literally seeing the industry influence on things and like, what's really going on, or having, like, a broader perspective of what's going on in the world, instead of, like, what you just get fed on a regular basis. It was just, yeah, it was like expanding your mind on so many different levels and understanding, like, try maybe not, you don't, I don't think ever fully understanding, but broadening the perspective in all these different areas on what's possible and what's going on, and reading between the lines and the subtext of things. And yeah, it's just. Like, I don't know, his work is just, there's so much there, even now, like spending, we've almost spent 10 years with it, right? Or maybe a little less than 10 years, and there's still, I still read a repeat article and learn something new, because there's just so there's so much depth inside his work from multiple different perspectives that it's, you know, even even, like, even podcasts, I still listen to his podcast. I can listen to the same podcast again and still learn something interesting that I may have missed the last time, or view something in a different perspective. Because a lot of times, like, you don't even understand his work. At first you don't understand it, and then, as you learn new things, like, you get new realizations from it as you listen to it again. So yeah, there's just, there's so much there. There's so much there from his work and from the people that he referenced. And then there's, like, just so much to continue with, like, all the stuff that that he left for us. Like, there's just so much, so many places to go with it. It's, it's actually quite exciting. I mean, that's, it's for me, I feel like it's like my purpose to continue what he's like put out there. I don't know if I'm not trying to be like a ray Pete, you know, I don't think that that's possible. He was his own man. But I would like to continue, at least for me, continue his work, and continue to celebrate his work and keep trying to, like, advance different perspectives as best as I can, and go from there.

Jay Feldman 1:06:32
Yeah, yeah, there's a there's a good handful of things you mentioned that, I know you were like, we could have left it there, But go back there. There's just, like, a couple things you mentioned that it just really resonated. So one was, you were talking about, I don't remember what the subject was, but just something that, oh, I think it was like politics. You're saying, like it wasn't of interest to you. I know history was something like that for me, like in school, I never cared at all about history. And I now, I find it fascinating because of, like, a recognition of the connection between history and culture and the evolution of culture, and how that influences, like science and, of course, nutrition and physiology, and like reading books now about different perspectives throughout, you know, 19/20, century. It's really cool to kind of see these points that Ray would mention at different times and how they all fit together. And so, yeah, I mean, it's something that is now fascinating to me, along with, you know, Geology or climatology, or, you know, whatever it is, all sorts of different factors that before just were because they were so separate from the things that I because I thought they were so separate from the things that I was interested in, I didn't have any interest in them. But yeah, right, with someone who made it very clear that wasn't the case, and yeah, absolutely for me, as well as someone who just completely shifted the trajectory of my life. I mean, again, going so far beyond, like, diet, but where I'm living and what I've done for the last, you know, decade since coming across his work is, yeah, it's just completely like, I can't imagine how different it would be otherwise, but yeah, I mean, he's like, an inspiration and a mentor from afar, as you were saying, even though we didn't have that direct experience. I mean, he felt like that 100%.

Mike 1:08:32
I just wish that we did a podcast with him, or talk to him, or something that was probably like, The only regret I have is that, and we never, never got to, like, really, like, pick his brain on certain things. But the thing is, like, there's just so much to cover. I don't even know where to begin. I don't even know where to start.

Jay Feldman 1:08:50
Yeah. I think we could have had some really amazing conversations that I would have loved to share with people, but I will still be picking his brain for my whole life, for sure. Yeah, and work, yeah, yeah. And as you were saying, like working to continue his work on and that flame and, yeah, I think everything that he embodied has created this community that now exists. And I think I know for me, and I've talked with a lot of other people who I think feel similarly. Just after Ray passed, I just feel like, aside from the like, overwhelming sadness and loss, this intense feeling of camaraderie and community with, you know, in love with the other people in this community, and I think everybody is really inspired to continue carrying pieces of his work forward. And I think the amount of talent and intelligence of you know, between people in the community who are all incredibly knowledgeable in different areas and can take different aspects of his work forward is just, I think there's so much potential. Yeah, so that's really exciting to see, and, yeah, excited to try to be a part of that in whatever way that I can, and I, like, can think of no better purpose than that.

Mike 1:10:12
Yeah, yeah. He's just, I don't know I was I, I told you earlier, like, I was incredibly sad when I and I was just shocked when I found out that he had passed. I really believe that first is, like, There's no way. I don't necessarily know what happens. But my that was, like, my initial feelings were like extreme sadness and shock. But then the the thought of next thing was like, more of like a gratitude for Ray's work. Yeah, because I think so I've emailed him, I think, two or three times in this entire, like, throughout everything. One I was, like, really stumped about prolactin in the stress process. I wasn't understanding it because, like, you can understand cortisol and adrenaline and growth hormone and yada yada, turning down a thyroid, but I didn't get prolactin at first. And so Ray, I was asking about that, but I think the other time I, like, sent him an email, just like, I just, I just, like, in one sentence, was like, Ray, like, I really, thank you for your work. You've like, changed my life. I just didn't, like, no other, any way to put it, because his work really did. I mean, both of us were on track to your exercise physiology and neuroscience, and you were probably on track to go into some type of, like, career exercise focused, or something along those lines, right? I was pre med. I was pre med at the time, yeah, and then I was nursing. And I had initially been pre med, and then I was like, just going to go to the nurse practitioner or something along those lines. Like, we were in the alternative spheres ready, right? Because we had done Pleo and keto and all that, and all those types of things, and the biohacking and intermittent fasting and yada yada, like trying out all those things. But I didn't really see, like, you know? I couldn't see where, like there was a future besides, like we're still working within the system stuff. And I think Ray's entire perspective, like his things, completely changed the directions that I was going to go. I still going to be health related with just the way I was going to go with it, and the way I live my life, and how I go go about things were completely altered just by his work, by his writings, that was, it wasn't any, wasn't direct interaction or anything like that. And they weren't necessarily like, again. It wasn't directing you do X, Y and Z. It was like the perspectives on it and the understandings of it and the perspectives on stress, etc. So, yeah, I think, I think he also gave purpose. He gave me, like, pretty he gave me a purpose, or he, he amplified the direction I was already going and put injected purpose into that, which was like life changing for me. So I have extreme gratitude for Ray and everything that he's done in his work. Yeah, and I, I, like, have the desire to continue it. It's something that I think is extremely important for me, and like I feel called to versus, you know, just working in the hospital or getting a nurse practitioner degree like those things all became completely irrelevant. From his stuff. They just became like, this is just the job that I do to make money. I don't really like it, but I need to live right now and then figure out some way that I can continue, like, researching and looking into things and understanding all of these things in greater depth after looking at race stuff. So, yeah, he's like, created this, I don't know it's like, this secret life on the side that will become full as we continue.

Jay Feldman 1:13:40
Yeah. Yeah, I don't think I have too much else to to add. Yeah, is like, I definitely echo the feelings of gratitude and love that I felt from Ray like, again, even having like, nearly no interaction with, like, direct interaction with them. But I think so many people have felt that, and I think, yeah, I don't know just I hope to continue to, like, celebrate him and his work as, you know, as we progress forward with ours.

Mike 1:14:19
I think it's like, I think that there's going to be, as we continue with the bioenergetic stuff, that the community will maybe start to become a bit more cohesive, because it's kind of like, all over the place now, but I think you're starting to see some people starting to come together a bit more. And so, yeah, I hope that the bioenergetic community can start, like, can start to interact a bit more. Some of you know, like how we're, you know, we do our podcast with Danny now and stuff like that. But start to bring people together and continue to to, like promote, or maybe not promote, but like, continue the work and whatnot, and the understandings and helping other people to better understand it, etc. And. As well. Like, there's probably some 15 year old now, well, I know there is, because I have multiple conversations, but there's like, probably some 1525, year old guy who just finished carnivore and intermittent fasting and has a whole bunch of hormonal problems, and me, like just finding Ray peens, like downing gallons of milk and stuff like that.

Jay Feldman 1:15:19
So, yeah, yeah. Well, so I think there's a lot of people like I think there's a lot of cohesion within the community, and I hope it continues. I hope it amplifies, for sure, that made me think of one other thing, which is just beyond a community that's so I think, filled with those feelings that that Ray's work has evoked, like the generosity and selflessness and curiosity and community orientation, like, there's also very few that are so wide ranging, like so heterogeneous, As far as, like, the types of people that have just felt so inspired by him and like, again, like, just every side of the of the of every spectrum. And so that's pretty cool too. I think also just a testament to Yeah, how, how well like he, like, Yeah, his his ability to communicate his message and and the power of that message.

Mike 1:16:27
Yeah, there's definitely, like, such a broad range of people from different backgrounds who were able to connect with his work. You know, not everybody's gonna go for the is gonna go for, like, the Randall cycle in depth, physiology, stuff. But for some, for some reason, Ray was able to, like, make the rental cycle important to so many different people, whether, like, they understood the specific enzymes or whatnot. Yeah, it was just he, just, he connected with so many people in his work. Every I hear, like, from so many people, it just makes sense. That's like, the common thing that I hear, it's like, there's this element where it's like, I don't fully understand why it makes sense, but there's like, an undertone or a feeling to it, or an intuitive aspect to it, that it just makes sense. And I think initially that's something that that that I felt with Ray's work, because at first I didn't understand all of it either, but then as I interacted with it more, I was like, wow, this is like, so many realizations now that I hold it's just like, yeah, par for the course standard understanding were like, massive changes initially, and when I look back, I'm just like, wow. Like, there's just so many times like reading and stuff was like, light bulb went off, and my like, completely changed how I understand my existence, existence in general, and like, the model that I have to understand the world and how things work, just like now it's all normalized, right? It's like, completely normalized. But it was at first. It wasn't. It took time.

Jay Feldman 1:17:57
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I would, you know, very highly recommend that people go ahead and check out Ray's articles on his website, which I'll link to in the description, his books, which I don't know what the easiest ways to access them, but I'll try to leave those in the description too. And you know, all the many interviews he's done, I'll try to link to some, like, databases of of of all of that. And also, you know, websites that are, you know, and just different people who are trying to further the information. So yeah, I would highly recommend exploring all those things. And yeah, hopefully we can all carry on the massive torch together. And yeah, take, you know, continue to Yeah, maybe altogether we can continue to be part of Ray, so yeah,

Mike 1:18:49
Or just take a ton of thyroid. We'll all just take a ton of thyroid in celebration of Ray. Everybody get your sign of melt, and we'll all take five mics. Toast to Ray.

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