Jay Feldman 0:04
Before we jump into this episode, I did want to make sure that you had heard about the new energy balance solution group coaching program. I made an announcement about this recently, but that program is up and running, and I just wanted to tell you a little bit about it, something that I'm really excited about I've created this program because, for one I've been entirely booked up with one on one clients, and my waitlist keeps growing. So I wanted to design a program that would allow you to get those same results as you would if we were doing one on one coaching, but also do so at a fraction of the price. And I've really gone out of my way to make sure that this program is affordable, and so I'm really excited about how the program's been going so far, and the results that people have been getting have just been phenomenal. So I'll tell you a little bit about what is included in the program. For one, there is a video library that includes videos geared toward helping you implement the bioenergetic approach with clear action tips and steps. And this includes videos on everything from restoring gut health to how you can lose weight without destroying your metabolism, or how you can boost your metabolism, how you can have amazing sleep and tons more. There's a ton of videos in there, and continuing to add videos to that library every month. There's also a bunch of resources included in the program, like a sample meal plan, Food Guide, calorie, macronutrient cheat sheet, and more. There's also a private community where you can get support between the group coaching calls, both for me and everyone else in the program. And then a major feature of this program, of course, being that you get two monthly small group coaching calls so that you can get personalized help. And I'm keeping these coaching calls small so that everyone has time to ask questions and get help, just like they would if they were talking to me one on one. So to find out more about this program, head over to Jay Feldman wellness.com/solution, and with that, I'm going to go ahead and introduce this episode. So welcome to episode 89 of the energy balance podcast, where we teach you how to live without constant hunger and cravings, fatigue, brain fog, poor sleep and other low energy symptoms by maximizing your cellular energy. I'm Jay Feldman. I'm a health coach and independent health researcher, and joining me again today is my good friend Mike Fave. Mike and I have been studying health and nutrition together for a long time now, and Mike also draws on his experiences from working within the healthcare industry. Today's episode will include a discussion about two studies, discussing a couple of different things, the first one focusing on the effects of different fatty acids on hormones and inflammatory markers. And then in the other study, we'll be going over the effects of fruit juice on blood sugar regulation and various inflammatory markers and so more specifically, we'll be talking about whether polyunsaturated fats cause more oxidative stress than saturated fats. We'll be talking about how PUFA intake affects testosterone. We'll be discussing whether fruit juice should be avoided for blood sugar regulation. We'll also discuss the effects of fruit juice on inflammatory markers and endotoxin and whether fruit juice has the same effects as soda, as I mentioned in the previous episode, this is a continuation of a different format of episodes where we walk through a couple of different studies and evaluate their claims and talk through the results and make some extrapolations based on the information. So let us know what you think about this style of episode in the comments. Or you can send me an email to Jay at Jay Feldman wellness.com and let us know if you'd like us to continue peppering in episodes like these. If you're new to this podcast, then after listening through today's episode, I'd highly recommend you go back and listen to episodes one through seven, where we took some time to build a foundation. As far as the bioenergetic view of health goes. And to check out the show notes for today's episode, you can head over to Jay Feldman wellness.com/podcast where you can take a look at the studies and articles and anything else that we referenced throughout this episode. And with that, let's get started.

Mike 3:59
So the next one, I guess, that will do is showing so we've talked about so now we have a compound from foods that's affecting the hormonal profile and the cell structure, which, according to that previous study that we talked about last week, those authors are saying it's nothing to do with foods. It's everything to do with you. People just need to exercise more which, this is clear evidence that, at least in rats that is, or which are, or in mammals, and some mammals, that's not the case. It's not just down to exercise. We have an effect from food that is showing inside the tissue structure. So now we're going to further that with another study that is showing that just lipids itself modifies the tissue structure and the function of that tissue, which, again. Now we don't even need some special phytoestrogen. This is literally just the lipid itself. So this study is and we can go through this one a little bit quicker. It's more graphs to look at than anything. But dietary lipids modify the red ox, the oxidation reduction. That's what red ox is, homeostasis and steroidogenic status in rat testes and so essentially what they did here, they had a series of female rats. They were bred and maintained. I controlled out through gestation lactation. The female rats were housed individually and kept at these temperatures, etc, etc, etc. Then they they basically had the pups the after weaning, the 40 male pups were randomized to one of four groups of 10 animals each, and fed an ad libitum on one of four different diets. Diets were prepared in identical manner, except for the lipid source added as commercial oil. So one lipid source was soybean oil, one was olive oil, one was coconut oil, one was grapeseed oil. That was at 70 grams per kilogram of diet, the final fatty acid composition of each diet presented table two rats were fed according to the American Institute of nutrition. So basically, the rats were eating all the same diet. Here's the diet over here, if anyone's interested, basic casein, sucrose, corn starch, cellulose, the commercial oils here, and then minerals, basically minerals and vitamins afterwards. Now what we're going to get to is what we're really looking here to see is what's the difference between coconut oil, soybean oil, grapeseed oil and olive oil, on testicular structure, and then on the testicular function. And so we have some graphs over here, or not graphs, excuse me, we have a table over here. And so what it's showing is the fatty acid composition of the diet. So the basically what the fatty acids look like. So you have the soybean diet, the soybean oil diet, olive oil diet, coconut oil diet and grapeseed oil diet. I'm not going to go through all the individual fatty acids here. The important here is going to be looking at the change between them, of saturated fatty acids, monounsaturated fatty acids and PUFA. The saturated fatty acids are obviously higher, highest, excuse me, in the coconut oil group here, at 94.6 I don't know what unit they're having. It has changed. So I don't know what the units are. Let's see.

Results are present. Are represented as mole percentage. So this is percentage, so it's 94.6% saturated fatty acids here, and the coconut oil, 4% monounsaturated fatty acids, 1.3% PUFA. And the olive oil group are 20% saturated, 70% MUFA, 8.4% PUFA, on the soy, where's 28% saturated fatty acids, 9% MUFA and 62% PUFA. And the grape seed is close to the soy at 17.6% saturated, 17% MUFA and 65.5% PUFA. So the soy and grape seed are mostly PUFA. The one thing we'll look at here is 18 to so the grape seed group had much higher linoleic acid than the soy, about 10% more. So 65.1% in the grape seed and 55.1% in the soy. And then the soy group had higher omega three. Looks like alpha and oleic acid. Think this is it, right here, at 6.8% compared to point 1% in the in the grape seed. So 6.8% in soy and point 1.1% in the grape seed. The reason this is important and why they use the two different oils is because they're gonna make arguments about Omega three to omega six ratio and things like that. Just wanted to point that one out. So when we get down here, we have changes in body weight and the testicular weight in the different groups. So the body weights were, they wound up being largest in the coconut oil and then second largest in the soy you could if anybody then the olive oil was third largest, and then the grape seed oil weighed the least. So the coconut oil gained the most body weight, then the soy, then olive then grape seed. What I want to talk about here so when we get to the absolute testicular weight, the olive oil and cocon oil had the highest testicular weights, whereas the soy and grapeseed had the least. The relative testicular weight was highest in olive oil, then in coconut oil, and then soy and grape seed were were less than both the olive oil and coconut oil. Now this is not as important as some of the other stuff that we're getting, getting to below, but we're seeing that the the test. Weights are highest in olive oil and coconut oil, which is, I think, what, what we would kind of expect. But again, how is that happening, and why is that happening? I don't know if you want to jump in here on any of this.

Jay Feldman 10:12
No, not yet. I think it's, it's all pretty self explanatory so far.

Mike 10:15
Yep. So now what we want to see is, what is the effect of the diet on the fatty acid composition of the testicular phospholipids. So what we're seeing here is in the coconut oil group, we had a massive increase in saturated fatty acids, about 64.6% saturated fatty acids, 5.9% monounsaturated, and then 29.1% polyunsaturated. Something to keep in mind that's important is inside the phospholipids, there's a conserved amount of polyunsaturated fat. So you're not going to be able to necessarily get it to zero, even if you're having all this coconut oil, the body still maintains some polyunsat and the phospholipids, just so everybody knows, are the little lipids that used to make the cell membranes and whatnot. So there's always going to be a little bit of PUFA in those regardless of how much saturated fatty acid intake you're going to have. But, and I think AJ Holbert is somebody who talks about some of these mechanisms as the effects of different fatty acids on phospholipid and membrane fatty acid composition overall. But there's some, there's some conservation of PUFA inside them.

Jay Feldman 11:29
Yeah, to largely varying effects depend or varying amounts depending on the species. So there are, again, talking about species differences the I kind of alluded to in in the last episode, or the last study we were going through, there are some and so that is one of them, you know, kind of that that more or less set point, or certain amounts, you know, certain fatty acid compositions of of those phospholipid membranes that don't or, you Know, that only varies so much. Another huge factor is the length of time on the diet, what diet they were on before. So maybe if this was carried out for longer, we would see a further decrease in polyunsaturated fats with the coconut oil group, for example but yeah, there's several parameters to you know, that would have to be considered,

Mike 12:17
Yeah. And overall, what you're really seeing here is that cocon oil had the least PUFA on the membrane. Olive oil had had the second least, although there was a pretty big difference. And then soybean oil and grapeseed oil had the most, but olive oil was kind of close to them, and this is just in the phospholipids. When we get down here, we're going to see of the neutral lipids. You'll see, you'll see some more change. But what we're going to you're going to see the lip, the lipid changes in the testicles, but then we're also going to see some changes in peroxidation, which is important, so when we get down to and then we're going to also see hormonal changes. So we're going to get to see a series of changes altogether when we get down to neutral lipids. So these aren't necessarily the these aren't necessarily phospholipids. These are other lipids inside the testicles, inside the cells. Again, cocon oil had the most saturated, least PUFA. Then we had olive oil wound up having a little bit more PUFA than the soybean oil group, which is actually quite interesting inside the testicles, had neutral lipids, and then grape seed had the the most PUFA overall, although the difference was 1% here, so olive oil was 30 and soybean oil was was 29 but coconut oil, again, came in at the lowest, at 26% PUFA and their saturated fats were Higher, monounsaturated was lower. Now, when we get into the not there when we get this is what I want us to get to.

Jay Feldman 13:48
Just real quick, if you don't mind. Mike, yeah, talking about the difference between so two things I want to mention. One is that the when we're considered, just so people understand the phospholipid versus the neutral lipids, the phospholipid is what is considered to be in the membrane of the cell structure the mitochondria, the membranes like the outer parts. The way that I would think of it, from a view that doesn't necessarily include membranes, is just that these are the structural fats, whereas the neutral ones are the ones that might be used for fuel precursors to, you know, various other metabolites, things like that, that could just be stored as triglycerides. So that's the difference there. And it's interesting to see that there's a larger difference in the spotsolipid polyunsaturated fat versus saturated fat, in the coconut oil group, versus the neutral lipids, basically showing that there, that the physiology is favoring a reduction in unsaturation of the phospholipids more than otherwise. So and again, you're going to get into lipid peroxidation in a bit, which is basically a huge reason for that, which is that the composition of the cellular structure, the cellular membrane, if you want to think of it in that way, matters a lot. And we. Talked about this in our original PUFA episode, way early on in the podcast, a link to that something we've talked about a lot, about how much that composition matters, for energy production, for the ability for the cell to get damaged, and on from there. It's basically one of the things we also talked about in terms of lifespan and aging. Because the more unsaturated those membranes, I'm saying in quotes are, the quicker you age, the shorter your lifespan. So it's a huge it's a huge factor. And we're seeing that the physiology here is favoring the saturation of those membranes over the saturation of the neutral lipids, you know, so more saturated structure there, you know, the physiology is dictating matters more than these neutral lipids. So just an interesting side note there, yeah.

Mike 15:42
And what we're going to get into this is just talking about so the total lipids, when we get into here, were highest in the coconut oil group overall. And then after that, you had the olive oil group, and then the soybean and grape seed. This actually interest, slightly interesting to me, just because my thought process on that is, if you have more saturated fats present, then the idea would be that you could probably pack more fats into the same amount of space, because the saturated fats tails aren't bent, because they don't have the double bonds. Not just a like a random thought that occurred, but I perhaps that is a reason why you're seeing the increase in lipids inside the cell, because you can put more lipids in a smaller amount of space. Saturated fats are much more dense. That's why you have a more solid structure at the at different temperatures than you would for like the unsaturated fats, which are liquid at lower temperatures. It's a change in density. So that's just something interested. That interesting. There not too much really to go in, to go into here, to break it down. They're seeing they're just breaking through the amount of fats or cholesterol, etc, inside the inside the cell. The other, the other thing to point out is perhaps if you are having more lipid peroxidation inside those cells, then you wouldn't be able to house as much lipids there as well. There has to be cleanup like, for example. And lipids isn't just fatty acid tails. You have phospholipids, neutral lipids, triglycerides, cholesterol, sterified cholesterol, and plasma allogens, which are all these are classes of lipids. So I'm not going to really cover this piece right here, but...

Jay Feldman 17:19
One interesting, good point, just like really quick in that table, is that the coconut oil group has an increase in the in cholesterol, free cholesterol and esterified is very similar. Even though there's no cholesterol in coconut oil, you know, there's no change in dietary cholesterol there. Of course, we have talked about why dietary cholesterol is not the only factor that is going to affect your blood levels of cholesterol, your tissue levels of cholesterol.

Just just interesting to point that.

Mike 17:47
It may be able to have more cholesterol, because as we get below, there's less oxidation, oxidative damage, and increased amount of antioxidants.

Jay Feldman 17:55
Right, And also maybe first aerotogenesis, there's an increase in cholesterol delivery to the tissues, you know, and on from there.

Mike 18:02
The other thing that's interesting is, in the olive oil and coconut oil groups, which are lower in PUFA, there's actually a decreased amount of esterified cholesterol with an increased amount of free cholesterol. And there's, I think, Dr Pete has discussed the problems with esterified cholesterol over free so that's something that's quite interesting as well, sterified cholesterol possibly being sterified, perhaps because of damage or or as a protective mechanism against oxidation, something along those lines, right? Yeah. So what we really get to over here, and so these are the tables that I think everyone's going to want to know is antioxidant status in the testicles, and then also hormone levels. So in the coconut oil and olive oil group, so the coconut oil had the lowest amount of T bars. So T bars are markers of lipid peroxidation, and it's, I think it's Thio barbiteric reactive oxygen species, or reactive species. So coconut oil came in at the lowest is obviously the lowest amount of PUFA olive oil, second lowest. Then there was soybean oil and grapeseed oil, which had significantly higher tea bars than the coconut oil and olive oil, almost three times as much lipid peroxidation in the grapeseed oil group than the coconut and almost two times as much in the grapeseed oil as olive oil, two times as about two times as much peroxidation in the soybean oil versus the olive oil and the coconut oil. And again. So all of these. There's the conjugated dienes, fragmentated DNA, the R, O, O, H, let me see if they tell us these are just reactive oxygen species as well. And then the frap is another. All these are measures of lipid peroxidation, and then also protein oxidation and DNA DNA damage. So basically, what we're seeing is the lowest amount of oxidation inside coconut oil and olive oil, and then the lowest amount of DNA damage inside coconut oil and olive oil. Oil and the lowest amount of protein carbohylation, which is a marker of protein damage, usually from from oxidative stress inside the coconut oil and olive oil compared to the grapeseed oil and the soybean oil. So overall, the coconut oil and the olive oil had the least amount of reactive oxygen species and lipid damage, which is the T bars, R, O, H is, and then the conjugated diene. So that's all looking at lipids, and then fragmented DNA was lowest in those groups as well, which is looking at DNA damage. And then the frap assay is ferric reducing ability of plasma. So that's looking at the ability of the plasma to handle iron, and it's an indication of oxygen ability to manage oxidative stress. So that's actually highest inside coconut oil and olive oil, which is good you want. You want a higher number, and then the protein car bottles, again, lowest in coconut oil and olive oil. So obviously, coconut oil and olive oil are having the least amount of oxidative stress. You want to touch on any of those Jay?

Jay Feldman 21:04
Yeah, I mean, I think it's clear with oxidative stress, I like that they're also showing that not only is this oxidation and damage to the lipids themselves, but also the DNA and the protein. So thank you. You mentioned this. But for the DNA, we're seeing two to three times as much damage in higher PUFA groups and in protein, you're seeing three to four times as much damage. And you know, in the high proof of groups compared to the very low PUFA groups. And you know, when it comes to things like ages, for example, which are advanced glycation end products, where you're seeing the glycation of proteins that basically damage to proteins, people tend to blame it on sugar, but as is being demonstrated here, the fat composition has a huge effect. And that's something that Ray's discussed, is that the composition of the fat and consuming PUFA has way larger of an effect on ages than sugar does. And Chris masterjohn is has corroborated that as well. So I'll link to an article where he shows that.

Mike 22:07
So besides the DNA damage, the protein damage, the lipid peroxidation, which was higher in coconut oil or not coconut oil, excuse me, the soybean oil and grape seed oil, we also looking at antioxidant levels. So, there's a sorbate here, which is vitamin C. Highest levels were in olive oil, actually, but then also coconut oil, and the lowest levels were in soybean oil and grapeseed oil. Alpha tocopherol was highest in coconut oil and olive oil, but lowest in actually, lowest in the soybean oil, and then grape seed oil actually was doing better than the soybean oil. I think the reason this way slightly, slightly, but I think the reason that may be is because the soybean oil had more omega threes. So you're actually seeing less tocopherol in that group, because the tocopherol is being used by the Omega threes. And the reason you may be seeing more as sorbate in the olive oil group versus the coconut oil group is perhaps some of the polyphenols in the olive oil were protective, but the sorbate is usually for water based oxidation, whereas the vitamin E is for lipid based oxidation. And the coconut oil being more saturated, had let had, most likely had less sat oxidation than the other groups, because it had minimal amounts of PUFA, and the olive oil had a little bit more PUFA. But the difference between the olive oil and the coconut oil group, as far as alpha to go for all and also vitamin E, was relatively minimal, whereas the differences in alpha to go for all levels between olive oil and coconut oil versus grape seed oil and soybean oil was like, multiple times like, like two times difference to two to three times difference, which is actually quite a big difference. There was two to three times more Alpha tocopherol in the olive oil and the coconut oil groups than the grapeseed oil and the soybean oil, and that matches perfectly with the lipid peroxidation we saw above, where there was multiple, multiple times more liver peroxidation in the soybean oil and grape seed oil group than there was in the olive oil and coconut oil group. And then protein thiols, which are, again, the I think that's kind of like, what is it? It's a it's like alpha lipoic acid, I think is part of the thiol system. And I think it's measures of, again, measures of the ability to protect protein from damage. I I'm not 100% sure on this one.

Jay Feldman 24:29
Yeah. I'm not either outside of them, just being an aspect of of an antioxidant, yeah, system.

Mike 24:36
But I know the thiol system involves the Alpha Lipoic Acid system, and I think they're looking at perhaps protein dial, maybe the amount of them here, it seems like there's higher amounts in olive oil and coconut oil. I couldn't, I couldn't actively interpret this one appropriately right now. But what I can interpret um is the glutathione, the oxygen, the reduced versus oxidized amount, the ratio um. Uh, let's see. So it's reduced glutathione to oxidized glutathione. So the ratio is significantly, multiple times better, like many times better, in the olive oil and coconut oil groups than the soybean oil and grapeseed oil group. What is it almost from olive oil to soybean oil, you're almost, it's like 50 to 200 so you're almost four times better glutathione content in the olive oil group than the soybean oil group, and about the same, or actually no. Even worse is like six times, yeah. And then the coconut oil group is, what four times to the grape seed, and then three times to the soy, about three times to the soy.

Jay Feldman 25:41
Yeah, yeah. Huge differences there.

Mike 25:43
Way more glutathione in olive oil and coconut oil groups. Way more vitamin C, way more Alpha tocopherol, decreased protein damage, decreased DNA damage, decreased lipid peroxidation, compared to the swaying grape seed. So I think we have a clear indicator here. But the next question is, and if you want to jump in, jump in. The next question is, what is that doing to our hormones? What does that do to the hormone production?

Jay Feldman 26:08
Yeah, the only thing I wanted to jump in on was, again, just connecting this back to the time frame and hormesis, where a lot of the things that will cause damage will at some point, cause a rebound antioxidant increase as a result of the oxidative damage. Obviously, we're not seeing that here, where we're seeing that the groups that had the more oxidative damage had lower levels of antioxidants, and it would depend on when exactly they're testing it after how long, but there tends to also be a point where you see an increase in those things. And that's why some people will cite, again, site things that are damaging as positive, you know, hormetic factors, but, but that's, uh, yeah, that it's generally not actually accurate. Again, it depends on the time frame.

Mike 26:53
Yeah and another thing that it that's important to show here is that just changing the lipids in your diet alters the structure and and other important variables like oxidation and reduction, which is extremely important inside the inside your tissues, which is and something to keep in mind is if your tissue, if in compare, the machine comparison isn't perfect, but it works here, even with the caloric calories in, calories out. Machine model, right where the body's just a machine. You put in calories, it burns them and puts them out. If this machine, if your furnace, is building up a ton of, I don't know, when they burn coal, they produce creosote and other compounds that were toxic. If you're building up a whole bunch of toxic compounds while you're burning your fuel, then you're gonna call you can cause damage to the furnace in this situation, when you have better fuel sources, then you have less you have more protection of the furnace, and you have less damage to the furnace overall. It's not a perfect example, but again, this, this flies in the face of the generally understood ideas around calories and calories out, and what these researchers are saying in this in the previous study that Jay and I talked about last week, where, essentially, oh, you just need to make sure that your fuel stores aren't, you know, too topped off by doing some exercise, so you can have flux through these retaining areas, which was the muscles and the liver and the adipose tissue. And if they're not full, then you won't, you won't gain weight, you won't whatever, whatever things they're trying to discuss. And it's like, well, there's more to the picture. And he goes, not only if you're eating too much, if you're eating an excessive amount of soy and you're altering and you have BPA on board, or you have higher amounts of estrogen in your system, your metabolism is going to be disturbed as far as producing adequate androgens. That'll change your lean mass and your fat mass. But here also, if you're eating the wrong fats, you may not, and we'll get to it. You may not be producing adequate androgens, but also you have increased oxidative stress inside the testicles. That'll decrease how well they're working. And then also eliminate their antioxidants, or increase the amount of antioxidants that you need to have in the diet, and change the red ox status, and then also, besides changing the red ox status, cause more DNA damage if you have excess amounts of these polyunsaturated fatty acids, and then also damage the proteins and the fatty acids inside the cellular structure. So you're literally damaging the structure itself. If the structure is being damaged, is it going to be able to produce adequate amount of energy from the hypothesis that we work with with Ray, which is energy and structure interdependent at every level, if you start damaging the structure, well, do you think the strut the energy is going to is going to be able to flow as well? Most likely not, especially, you're seeing protein damage, DNA damage and lipid damage, and the lipid damages could be at the membranes for the mitochondria. And we've gone into that before. I'm not going to, I'm not gonna go through that whole cycle again. Do you want to add anything thereJay?

Jay Feldman 29:46
No, let's, let's see the effects on the hormones, which, as you were kind of getting at, is obviously has an effect on body composition and among, as we talked about, every other aspect of health.

Mike 29:57
Yep. So here. You have hormones, we have olive oil and coconut oil. Now, first things we're going to notice is that the LH and FSH inside the coconut oil groups are lower. This isn't actually a bad thing. Those are the hormones that signal to the testes to produce more hormones and to develop more more sperm. So they're actually lower here, and we'll get to it in a second. And then what they have over here is we'll look at the total testosterone first, and then we'll go to the estradiol, and then free testosterone to bound testosterone. But the total testosterone was significantly higher in the olive oil and the coconut oil groups. The coconut oil was the highest, almost twice as much testosterone in the coconut oil group versus a grape seed oil group, and almost 1.5 times as much testosterone in the coconut oil group compared to the soybean oil group. Olive oil lags a little bit behind coconut oil, but not by too much. So you're seeing decreased LH and FSH, which are the signaling hormones to produce testosterone and develop sperm, but you're seeing more testosterone in the coconut oil and olive oil groups, means things are working better. You don't need that pituitary signal to produce more testosterone, because the testicles are able to produce it effectively, whereas in the soybean oil and the and the grapeseed oil groups, you have almost twice as much to 1.5 to two times as much FSH and LH as compared to the olive oil and coconut oil groups, and their testosterone levels are still lower. So they're get having an increased pituitary signal to produce testosterone with a decreased testosterone output in the grape seed oil in the soybean oil group, whereas in the coconut oil and the olive oil group, you're having a decreased testosterone output within with an increased testosterone output, excuse me, with a decreased requirement for pituitary signaling, which is great. That's a those are all. Those are all great signs here, overall. The next thing we could talk about here is the stratiol. Now the estrogen is a little bit higher in the olive oil and coconut oil groups than it is in the soybean oil and the grapeseed oil group. I think that's just because they're having a higher amount of testosterone overall. And it the pattern tracks that because you have the testosterone is highest in the coconut oil group and and the olive oil groups, and you see the estrogen are higher there, then the soybean oil group has more testosterone than the grape seed oil group, and it has some more estrogen than the grape seed oil group does. And with the grape seed oil group, it has the lowest testosterone and also the lowest estrogen. So I think the testosterone and estrogen, the are kind of balancing between each other here, based on the like, the more testosterone you have, kind of, the more estrogen they're getting. It looks like there's perhaps a ratio that the rats tissues are keeping. There's always going to be aromatization. So I don't, I don't think that that's necessarily so worrisome here.

Jay Feldman 32:57
Go ahead, Jay, yeah. I mean maybe also a factor of the increased weight gain. I know they didn't. I don't think they delineated between muscle mass and fat mass, but if there was an increase in body fat, that could have been a factor as well increasing aromatization. Yep, the Go ahead. So I wanted to mention as far as LH and FSH goes, just a comparison for people that might make it easier to understand is TSH, which is basically another stimulating hormone that's produced by the pituitary when there's not enough thyroid activity being sensed.

Mike 33:32
Well, the other thing too is you have more activity in the olive oil and coconut oil group, because they looked at free testosterone and bound testosterone. So free testosterone was highest in coconut oil, second highest in olive oil, almost two the coconut oil group was almost two times higher than the grape seed oil group. But then also the bound testosterone was high. What was relatively similar, highest in the cocon oil, high and higher, high, second highest in the olive oil, and then obviously soy, and then the or then grape grape seed, then soy. So you have a higher free testosterone in olive oil and coconut oil with a higher bound testosterone. And then they look at the free to bound ratio. The free to bound ratio was highest in olive oil, second highest in coconut oil, and then soy and then grape seed. So there have the higher olive oil and coconut oil have a higher free testosterone to bound testosterone ratio, higher free testosterone and higher bound testosterone and higher total testosterone than the soybean oil and the grapeseed oil group. So they have more hormone overall and more activity and decreased pituitary signaling. The other thing I wanted to put in here is these are enzymatic activities in the different groups. So there's this three beta hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase and 17 beta hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase dehydrogenase, the three beta is catalyzes the conversion of progesterone from pregnenolone. Basically, it's for. It's from, it's a conversion of pregnant alone forward, and then the 17 beta, I think, is directly I have here the conversion of DHEA androsino dial into testosterone and estrogen. So what you're seeing is that the the higher the enzyme activities are much higher, almost almost uh, three times higher in in the olive oil group than the grape seed group, and almost two and some change, two and a half times higher in the coconut oil compared to the grape seed and then about two times higher from the olive oil to the soybean oil, and about one and a half times higher from the coconut oil to the soybean oil. These enzymatic activities are higher in the olive oil group and the coconut oil group than the soybean oil and the grapeseed oil group. So we have, just to recap, we have higher testosterone, we have higher free testosterone, we have higher bound testosterone, we have lower FSH and LH. We have increased vitamin C, increased vitamin E, increased glutathione and decreased lipid peroxidation, DNA damage. What was the other ones? Protein damage, all of that is inside the coconut oil and the olive oil groups compared to the soybean oil and the grapeseed oil groups. So you have a whole litany of changes that are indicating all quite beneficial effects from the coconut oil and olive oil, compared to the soybean oil and the grapeseed oil, which all have direct, we're seeing direct hormonal effects. Is going to be direct metabolic effects as well. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Think that pretty much. I mean, there's some other stuff I highlighted down here, and it's just talking about linoleic acid and et cetera. But we pretty much, we cover a lot of this stuff overall. There's a one little point here that's talking about plasmalogins That was interesting, having high they have antioxidant properties themselves with the fatty acids, and the plasmalogins were highest, obviously, in coconut oil and the coconut oil and the olive oil groups. And then over here, they're just talking about Vitamin E being a antioxidant threat, and it stabilizes poof enriched membranes, down regulate superoxide generation, and then that is increasing the test ocular that testicular stereogenesis reduced by inhibition of antioxidant enzymes due to excessive nitric oxide formation, so that any excess reactive oxygen species or oxidative stress in the cell can reduce enzyme function. And that's what we were seeing. Essentially, we saw reduced enzyme function in the grapeseed oil and the soybean oil. So if anything, the coconut oil and olive oil groups are where we should be, and then the grape seed oil and the soybean oil groups are the aberration. So they're dropping it from what normal should be.

Jay Feldman 37:51
Right, exactly, and the and we've referenced some studies before where, if there is PUFA, given, you know, the presence of PUFA, or the dietary enrichment with PUFA, will increase oxidative stress in the testicles, and that vitamin E will help to rescue that. So here they're not adding in any vitamin E. They're showing that the vitamin E is decreased from the PUFA. But we've also referenced studies in the past showing that the vitamin E can actually oppose this effect, exactly how they described here. Yep, yeah, yeah.

Mike 38:25
So this is a, let me stop the share here. That was our second study. So now what we've seen is the certain compounds in food, like phytoestrogens from soy, can be damaging to your testicular structure, alter hormonal profile, perhaps in a negative way, change fertility. All these things will have effects on the physiology in general. And now we're seeing that different fatty acids have different effects on the physiology in general on multiple levels. So the next piece is there are beneficial compounds in food that that can change different different responses. So we'll go into a whole host of different responses, microbiome responses, and also insulin and and glucose handling. Now I we've discussed this study before in the last podcast, and it's a pretty famous study in the bioenergetic sphere, so I'm going to share it, and we'll jump into it. So this one's famous in the bioenergetic sphere. It's the orange so orange juice neutralizes pro inflammatory effect of a high fat, high carbohydrate meal and prevents endotoxin increase in toll like receptor expression. I'm not going to read all of these in the interest of time. But what I do want to get to is what exactly they did, and then we're going to see changes. The changes I want to highlight here are micro microbiome changes, inflammatory changes, and blood sugar handling changes, and this is just from orange juice. And the purpose of doing all three of these studies so. Just to reiterate for everyone here is that we want to show that there's other effects from the different from each individual food that flies in the face of this ideas of it's just calories in, calories out, or If It Fits Your Macros, or something ridiculous like that, it's there. We're having individual effects of all these of all these different foods. And it's quite important, and that's we're not even talking about nutritional differences as far as micros, If It Fits Your Macros Well, are you covering all your micros? So there's that argument I feel like is basic. It should just be understood.

Jay Feldman 40:32
Um, right, go ahead. Well, yeah. And of course, this all pertains to body composition, which is normally what people are referring to when they're talking about If It Fits Your Macros or calories and calories out. But these things also just have as much relevance to general health, gut health, immune health, reproductive health, and on from their brain health, you know as heart heart health, all the things we talk about all the time has just as much relevance to those things as it does, body composition, yep.

Mike 41:03
So what they did here is three groups of 10 healthy, normal weight men and women. They have a age range 2025, or BMI is 2025. Age range is 20 to 40. They basically they gave them three groups ingested a 300 kilocalorie drink of 75 grams of glucose, or they did orange juice or water alone. So the comparison is, orange juice does pure glucose or water, and then they had that with a 900 kilocalorie, high fat, high carbohydrate meal, which was egg muffin sausage muffin sandwiches and two hash brown potatoes contained 81 grams of carbs, 51 grams of fat and 32 grams of protein. That is a lot of fat for one meal. That's definitely for sure. I don't know what fat they use, but I doubt it was, you know, coconut oil, hash browns, or anything like that, probably some type of vegetable oil. So we already have problems there, but that's not the point. You're still going to see differences to compensate for the difference in volume between the drinks. Subjects were asked to drink an extra 350 ml. 350 milliliters of water with a glucose drink. And then also, you're giving 10 to 15 minutes to finish your drinks and meals. That was tight, 10 to 15 minutes to eat 1000 calorie meal with, oh boy, yeah.

Jay Feldman 42:14
They're really setting they're really setting these people up for a rough time, as you said, between a huge pufallated meal, you know, as they said, high carb, high fat meal. Not that that is necessarily a problem, but they're talking very high fat here, which can be an issue for some people. I mean, I don't think it's even so concerning, but when it's high PUFA, definitely, not to mention all the other issues with the, I'm sure, the muffins and whatever's in the sausage, yeah. And then, as you said, they're, not only do they have to finish the meal in 10 to 15 minutes, but they also have to drink 700 milliliters...

Mike 42:45
No three 350 milliliters with 75 an extra 75 grams of carbohydrate.

Jay Feldman 42:52
I thought it was because they said an extra 350 with the glucose drink.

Mike 42:57
Okay, then, yeah, perhaps it's uh,

Jay Feldman 43:00
I guess it doesn't say how much liquid, how much volume of liquid it is in total.

Mike 43:05
Either way, they still to drink a decent amount of they had to drink a decent amount of fluid and eat this fat meal in 10 to 15 minutes.

Jay Feldman 43:12
Yeah. Which those things alone is not a good recipe. You know, definitely something that would drive some inflammatory responses. So it makes the protective effect that we'll be getting into of orange juice even more notable.

Mike 43:28
.Yep. Um, and then they, basically, they looked at, they did a they looked at a whole bunch of, like ROS mononuclear cells, which are immune cells. Um, they looked at different like markers in the in the immune cells, like TLR four, TLR two, toll, like receptor two and four, both of those are inflammatory markers. They looked at SOCs three, which is a marker involved in insulin resistance. And then there's those are the main three we're going to cover. The other ones are in there, but those are the main ones to focus on again, TLR four, TLR two. And then they looked at the the endotoxin content in the plasma. They also looked at in the food, which is kind of cool too, but it's kind of useless because the amounts in the foods were so small that it doesn't it's not going to make a difference on plasma levels. So what we have here is plasma glucose concentrations and of the three different meals. And here's the hours following the challenge. So the area under the curve is usually about a three hour type of deal. And what we're going to see here is quite interesting. So the black triangle is the orange juice plus the meal. And just what I want to note off the bat for this black triangle is we look at the plasma glucose concentrations here, there, there. It's it didn't spike the blood glucose that much at all with the orange juice, whereas with the glucose meal, you have quite the spike, not really that much, but it can be comparison to the orange juice, not that much at all. And then with the water meal, you have a minimal spike, minimal spike at most. So there's something with the orange. Juice that seems to be improving glucose handling in the body, or insulin sensitivity, essentially. And when we come down here, we look at plasma insulin concentrations. We do see at the black triangle in the center here that the orange juice meal did increase insulin, it just didn't increase it as much as the glucose meal. And then, obviously water didn't increase insulin, the least because it didn't have the extra 75 grams of carbohydrate. They just had the potatoes and whatever the bread was. So what you're seeing based on these two graphs alone, the orange juice is erasing insulin, but it's not drastically increasing blood sugar. So what you can surmise, or what you can assume here based on these results alone, or, I guess it wouldn't be an assumption. It would kind of be a hypothesis, that the orange juice is increasing the body's insulin sensitivity. So less insulin was needed to have the body respond to more carbohydrate, which is quite an amazing response here, overall, just looking at insulin sensitivity alone. So that's another thing. It's it's not just calories in, calories out. Are your calories coming from a glucose drink? Are you drinking a Gatorade, or are you drinking an orange juice? Because if you're drinking an orange juice, based on what we can see here, we can assume that there's some improvements in your insulin sensitivity with the orange juice versus the Gatorade, not to mention the other thing they could point out here as well is that the orange juice, it does have something else that considers it does. Well, this is a glucose compared to a sucrose with glucose and fructose. So you may not see as much of a spike as well, because the orange juice does also contain fructose, which doesn't necessarily spike uh, blood sugar, to the same extent that glucose does or have such a potent insulin genetic response. But overall, these two curves would indicate a degree of increased insulin sensitivity because you have decreasing insulin with a more managed blood sugar, which is, you know, what everyone wants. I don't know if you want to add anything to this.

Jay Feldman 46:58
I just wanted to say that the the blood glucose responses seem pretty low considering the meal, a meal that already had 80 grams of carbs, plus 75 grams from the drinks,

Mike 47:08
But it could because the large amount of fat,

Jay Feldman 47:11
Yeah, or I was thinking, they're probably fasted, uh, going into this. So that was so I just wanted to mention that that's probably a reason for the minimal blood sugar raising effects in the first place. And if they weren't fast, they would probably see an even larger difference between the between the meals.

Mike 47:29
Yeah, I think they were fasted up here. Let's see, um,

Jay Feldman 47:35
Oh, overnight, fast, yep, yep, okay,

Mike 47:38
So either way, um, just a night, just a nice difference. So you could see here compared to the and the one thing I want to point out is, why are we seeing more insulin in the OJ versus the water? I think because you're having, you would be having a less carbohydrate because you're not, they didn't add to 75 grams of carbohydrate with the water group, right? Um, so yeah. So then the next piece that we're going to get to, these are, I'm not going to go through this table. It's just talking about the inflammatory markers. This becomes more interesting when we get to the graphs. But overall, what you're seeing so the reactive oxygen species generated by the two different cells, so the the the immune cells, so those are the mononuclear cells, and then the poly polymorphone Nuclear cells. Basically, what you're seeing is the orange juice is the black triangle. We're going to have lower we'll have lower ROS generation in general with the orange juice than we will with the with the the glucose of the water. So the water had an initial spike and then came back down to baseline at five hours, and then the OJ didn't spike as much as the water, as far as Ros. And then at three hours, a little higher, but again, it came back down to baseline, whereas the glucose consistently remained elevated, and they were statistically significant differences. And then for the then, that was mononuclear cells, so it's like your white blood cells. And then for the polymorph nuclear cells. Again, they these are immune cells as well. The ROS generation changes. Again, the orange juice remains lower at three hours than the water and the glucose meal, and then was at five hours about the same spot as the glucose meal. And there, again, changes were significantly, significant. So we're seeing, in general, lower reactive oxygen species from the orange juice meal than we are seeing from the water meal and the glucose meal. I'm sure you could drop these maybe even a little bit lower if you change some of the foods that were in there, but that's a different that's the whole point is just to see the difference. The next thing we're going to talk about here is the TLR two and TLR four expression. So TLR two and TR four are inflammatory signal. They're not mediators. They're they're signaling components. So the cells express these toll like receptors, and they're usually associated with they're supposed to they're supposed. To how do I want to put this the toll, like receptors are sense if there's inflammation, tissue damage, viral infection, bacterial infection, or cellular debris, any of those types. So they're basically sensing receptors that pick up these different damages or insults to the body or to the cells, and they get upregulated and expressed when you have those occur. So TLR two and TLR four. TLR four specifically responds to endotoxin, and I think TLR two responds to like tissue damage. So essentially, what you're seeing is in the orange juice meal, the immune cells, the mononuclear cells, have lower, significantly lower, TLR two and TLR four expression than the water or the glucose group, which are and these are statistically significant at each point. So overall, we're having less. We're having less TLR four and TLR two. So the mRNA expression is essentially the signal from the nucleus to the ribosome to produce the protein. So the nucleus is signaling these less but when we come down over here and we get to the protein, the actual production of protein of the TLR two and TLR four for to produce the receptor, they're actually lower as well. So we're having less TLR two, less TLR four, which are inflammatory, towards our receptors signaling some type of insult or inflammatory or infective response from the orange juice group compared to the water or the OJ meal. And then also, the next piece here that's quite important is that we have significantly less endotoxin from the orange juice meal than we do from the water meal or the glucose meal. So overall, the orange juice is seems to be manipulating the microbiome, or at least decreasing plasma endotoxin concentrations, and it's statistically significant at all time points, and then also decreasing inflammatory receptor signaling. Here, with TLR two and TLR four, it's decreasing the reactive oxygen species generation, and when we get back up to the top here, we have a decreased blood glucose spike and a and seems like an increased responsiveness to insulin overall. So the orange juice is having multiple beneficial effects here. So if you combine your orange juice with some coconut oil or olive oil in your meal, maybe have some eggs, cook them in coconut oil, and then you can have another fruit, maybe, and some hash browns on the side that are cooked in the coconut oil. Maybe put some olive oil on top when you're done, and then make sure you're not having any soy and you have a recipe to alter your hormonal profile. And well, that's regardless of the calories and regardless of the macros per se. And that was, that was the whole point of going through these studies in this episode, to was to kind of dispel and show that there are other effects to these different these different foods, besides just their calories or their macros.

Jay Feldman 52:55
Yeah, and to go back through a couple of the specifics, I think it's interesting to point out that, of course, yes, the orange juice with the meal reduced both TLR four and TLR two, mRNA and protein expression, but the glucose group was the worst there, whereas the water group was in the middle. So what that tells us is that it probably isn't the glucose in the orange juice that's making a difference, but rather one of most likely two other factors, one, as you mentioned already, is fructose, which would have blunting response on the insulin and glucose spikes. And also we talked about in our fatty liver series, not only does it not cause fatty liver disease, but it very much supports liver function and supports the ability for the liver to detoxify. And so that could be a huge factor, as far as the detoxification of endotoxin and other gut toxins go, and the reduction in inflammation that would also go along with that, that would lead to reduced TLR four and TLR to mRNA expression. But the other factor being the polyphenols in the orange juice, that also could have a lot of those same effects, protective, on the liver, reduction in maybe even the production of endotoxin in the first place, and a reduction in the inflammation response in general. I Yeah, so I don't think they did anything to delineate between those two things here, but I think both of those things are protect, protective, and so when you're considering the application of this, it doesn't mean that orange juice is the only thing, but basically, anything that contains fructose and polyphenols to have it with your meal is probably pretty protective in general, especially if it's a worse meal, like the one that they had here. So that would mean, basically, as you said, any fruit or fruit juice, would, you know, or honey or maple syrup, things like that.

Mike 54:42
They mentioned down low in discussion, and the discussion about hesperatin and our enginein as possible mediators here, and they discussed that through they're showing that, and let's see if I can find it. I forget where they discuss. It. But they discuss the polyphenols as being possibly beneficial here over and that's being the reason that we have we have less negative effect from the orange juice. I have to look for where it is down at a different point. But they do mention those, and I get so, yeah. The other thing is vitamins and minerals, right? The orange juice. If you, if anybody, if anybody, doubts that orange juice is nutrient dense, because a lot of people say fruit is not, go on chronometer whenever you get a chance. And and that's the app that I think both of us recommend for clients to use people to look at their food, to see where they're at, go on chronometer and put in like 64 ounces or 32 ounces of orange juice and see where your vitamins and minerals are at. It's quite nutrient dense. You can, I think you can cover all of your nutrients for the day, almost every single nutrient, with just orange juice. I think like 64 ounces of orange juice and one pound of steak, the only thing you'd be missing is some calcium. So if you wanted to throw in a little bit of dairy there, if you tolerate it or supplement a little bit you define, but you can, I think on chronometer, you can cover all the daily targets with just those two foods, which is interesting. Overall.

Jay Feldman 56:08
Yeah and they're using 75 grams of the amount of orange juice. That would result in 75 grams carbohydrates, which is not a small amount, probably 20 ounces or so. So, yeah, so, so, and you were right. They do mention that hesperidin and norringenin, the flavonoids that are present in orange juice, are likely responsible for the effect here, of course, they can't say that the fructose was likely beneficial, that there would be far too blasphemous for them to even consider that possibility, they do mention that flavonoids, in general, could have been shown to reduce inflammation and have opposing effects on TLR four and whatnot, but they said that generally, it's a much higher levels than, you know, much higher concentrations than would have been present in in this study from this orange juice amount. So yeah, I think the fructose could be a huge factor as well. Another thing too, again, is pointing out that the orange juice, not only was it less than the pure glucose meal, but it was less than the water meal. So again, this is 75 grams of carbohydrates, half of which about our fructose. Half are glucose, in addition to 80 grams of carbohydrates, which are probably all glucose from the muffin, and it's probably all from those those muffins. So that's a meal that has 100 and what is that 160 grams of about almost 160 grams of carbohydrates, and that had less than the water meal, which had only 80 grams of carbohydrates, so less inflammation, less insulin and glucose response, and less TLR, four activity, all these inflammatory markers, right? There was, there was less of a in insulin and glucose response even compared to the water group too, right?

Mike 57:59
Yeah, the orange juice outperformed the water group as well. I'll scroll up here so you can see Yeah. So the water was midway between. It had the lowest insulin response, but the blood sugar levels were actually higher. But the insulin response makes sense because you had more carbohydrate inside the orange juice group.

Jay Feldman 58:18
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So with 156 grams of carbohydrates versus 81 in the water group, 156 being in the orange juice group, you had less inflammation, lower blood sugar response, less oxidative damage, and all the markers that that go with that, which of course, drives perfectly with everything that we discuss in terms of the protective effects of carbohydrates and and on from there, the protective effects of fructose. But from what you normally hear in the mainstream and the alternative, especially the low carb spheres, that that is impossible, like so far from impossible, like so far beyond impossible. So yeah, I I think that's, as you said, why this is a popular study in the bioenergetic communities. Because it's, it has, you know, so shows such a profound effect in that regard.

Mike 59:09
Yeah, another thing too, is a lot of people say fructose increases endotoxin. Well, not in the orange juice study. And we've talked about reasoning why this is the case before. Um, because com combining fructose with glucose, which orange juice does, allows it to be absorbed more easily, and then the polyphenols inside the inside the juices and fruits and basically modulate the microbiome in a positive way and inhibit pathogenic species from basically capitalizing on the sugars. So the polyphenols have multiple beneficial effects. A lot of them are related to gut microbiome, but essentially, the orange juice is protective against the damaging effects of some of these other, these other crappy foods, because I it sounds like they went out and got everybody Mickey D's, right? It's an egg muffin sandwich with hash browns. It sounds like. They got everyone Mickey D's, and then they gave them orange juice, water or a glucose drink, and called it a day. And that the OJ is about 22 ounces of orange between 20 and 22 ounces of orange juice you were right.

Jay Feldman 1:00:13
Yeah, yeah, so, and as we said, you're eating it in 15 minutes, like you're eating this part, this generally terrible food. It's not like this was organic fresh squeezed orange juice, not that it always has to be fresh squeezed or whatever. But yeah, I mean, and again to tell, to tell someone that adding on top of your terrible meal, adding an extra, you know, 37 and a half grams of fructose in, you know, from orange juice, plus an extra 37 and a half grams of of glucose is going to reduce inflammation and reduce endotoxin and all of that. And as you said, some people will cite fructose increasing endotoxin. They definitely cite fructose increasing inflammation. They normally don't connect those dots with the endotoxin piece we we did that in our in our fatty liver series. But yeah, obviously having the fructose plus polyphenols in some combination, they're probably having a pretty well we're seeing having a huge effect.

Mike 1:01:07
Yeah, yeah, all of it together. So if you ever read an article that says, like, juice is just as bad as soda, then just post this. Post this article in the comment section for everyone to see, because this is not reality. There's, I think I discussed this study before, and I what the way I said comparing juice to soda, or comparing juice to this, like pure glucose is like comparing motorcycles and watermelons, like they're completely different. Like it's it's an entirely different beast. When you're looking at juice with the polyphenols, with the vitamins, with the minerals. And this study alone just trashes the if it fits your macro stuff. And it also trashes calories in, calories out, to some extent, because technically, the water group would have had the lower amount of calories, at least in a per meal setting, which you know that someone said, Oh, well, over time, well, in the per meal setting, we have decreased inflammation, decreased endotoxin, and better insulin sensitivity just from adding in the orange juice, regardless of the fact that the total carbohydrates and the calories were were pretty much the same. So yeah.

Jay Feldman 1:02:15
Well, of course, you have to connect insulin we need some other studies here, Mike, to connect insulin sensitivity and inflammation and endotoxin to weight gain or body fat gain, because there's no way those could have any effect. I mean, you didn't say calories, all those things aren't calories. I don't know how they could have any effect on body composition.

Mike 1:02:31
Yeah, there. We need randomized control trials and all of this stuff. So until then, we don't have any information, and we can't make any we can't make any assumptions, because it's not scientific right?

Jay Feldman 1:02:41
Right, I do wish they had a sucrose group here to compare with the glucose and orange juice group. That would have been a good way to see how much of a role the Polyphenols are playing. But, yeah,

Mike 1:02:51
yeah, there's, there's a lot more that could be but overall, but just based on today, we have avoid soy, avoid McDonald's. Have your orange juice and then use olive oil, and coconut oil seem to be safe, especially if you're going to use an extra virgin, which would then also have polyphenols from the olive oil or the coconut oil. And then with olive oil, certain varieties, like coroutina, are much lower in the polyunsaturated fatty acids. So those are, those are, there's options there as well. So those are just, yeah.

Jay Feldman 1:03:26
yeah, yeah, for sure. All right, that's going to do it for today's episode. If you did enjoy it, please leave a like or comment. If you're watching on YouTube and if you're listening elsewhere, please leave a review or five star rating on iTunes. All those things really do a lot to help support the podcast and are very much appreciated. Check out these show notes for today's episode. You can head over to Jay Feldman wellness.com/podcast we can take a look at the studies and articles and anything else that we referenced throughout today's episode, and if you missed my announcement at the beginning of this episode, the brand new energy balance solution group coaching program is up and running, and I'm really excited about this program. There are a ton of really great features included within it. And more than that, the results that people have been getting so far have just been incredible. So really excited about that. So let me tell you a little bit about what is included in the program. For one you'll be getting two monthly small group coaching calls that allow you to get personalized help. And I keep these coaching calls again in small groups, so that everyone has a chance to ask their questions and get the help that they need. Additionally, there is a video library that includes videos geared toward allowing you or helping you, to implement the bioenergetic approach with clear action steps and tips. This includes videos on how you can restore gut health, how you can lose weight without destroying your metabolism, how you can boost your metabolism, how you can have amazing restorative sleep, and tons more. And I'm continuing to add to this library every single month. And in addition to that video library, there are also resources like a. Sample meal plan, a food guide, a calorie and Mac energy cheat sheet, and more. Lastly, there is a private community where you can get support between those group coaching calls, both from me and also from everybody else in the program. So to find out more about that program, you can head over to Jay Feldman, wellness.com/solution, and with that, I'll see you in the next episode.